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Parad1gm
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« on: September 11, 2019, 09:49:56 09:49 »

Good <Insert Time of Day>

Its been a long time dream of mine to have a large format cnc. I've recently gotten a cheap 2417 China special to get some experience with cnc in general and i think its time to start building a much larger machine.

Over the years I've been collecting parts to put a machine together. As of tight now I'm looking at using the two 1000mm x 16mm linear rods and the 1 acme rod that I salvaged from a tape change unit as the start of my X Carriage and some other rails and acme rods that I've salvaged to build a Z carriage that will do about 6" of height.

I will most likely be buying two 1000mm x 16mm supported rods to make my Y rails.

I'm debating just using 10mm GT2 Belt instead of the acme rods on all axis (Other then Z)

I have 4 Nema 21 motors and will either be using GRBL with A8255 controllers or I have a 3 axis Parallel controller that uses the TB6550 (I Believe)

Build material will most likely be doubled up 3/4" MDF initially

Spindle will initially be a 500W China special with intent to but a 22Kw spindle

Looking for some feedback / suggestions / thoughts / criticism on my choices for parts

As for design i'm open to suggestions.
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Wizpic
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2019, 11:43:49 11:43 »

Personally I would not MDF, I followed some plans to build my own which was made out of MDF and I did the same doubled up the MDF and used bolts and nuts and I though by the extra bits adding more bits to make it strong. Thought I did a really good job cost a lot of money to buy the materials even added pieces of angle iron in places where I could again adding more strength but when I initially tested it was not sturdy enough even though I added all the extra bits and what people had done. The tolerance was no where near door enough for a good machine and for what it cost I could of brought a good machine.

I would make it out of alloy and steel, in the end I brought a 6040 and over the years upgraded the stepper motors and drivers which certainly was cheaper than trying to build me own including buying the machine. But at the end of the day depends on how accurate you want it to be but for me if your going to spend all the time,effort and money you want it to be very good tolerance and accuracy
Just my 2 pennies worth
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Silent_Thunder
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2019, 08:59:48 08:59 »

hi
as wizpic said it is a lot cheaper to buy a ready made CNC than building your own, unless u have a lot of time and money to spend Smiley
and if you are going to make that step, never use belts bad idea
and for the materials you can use acrylic sheets instead of MDF, I know MDF is easier to cut, but acrylic is more robust.
all these suggestions are for small sized machine, for bigger machines forget about MDF and acrylic you have to go for steel 
final suggestion buy ready made one
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pickit2
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2019, 05:15:36 17:15 »

I must get back to my second build, abandoned in my loft.
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Parad1gm
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2019, 09:09:37 21:09 »

hi
as wizpic said it is a lot cheaper to buy a ready made CNC than building your own, unless u have a lot of time and money to spend Smiley
and if you are going to make that step, never use belts bad idea
and for the materials you can use acrylic sheets instead of MDF, I know MDF is easier to cut, but acrylic is more robust.
all these suggestions are for small sized machine, for bigger machines forget about MDF and acrylic you have to go for steel 
final suggestion buy ready made one

My thoughts for this build is 1000mm x 1000mm work area. How about aluminum as a build material? Not quite steel but much more readily available to me.

Posted on: September 12, 2019, 09:07:55 21:07 - Automerged

I must get back to my second build, abandoned in my loft.

What has you stalled on the build? I like the design? Your own custom or some plan you found?
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zac
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2019, 11:51:50 23:51 »

Aluminum alloys are much easier to machine than steel and are rigid if sufficiently thick.

For reference, a friend bought one of these commercial CNC mills about 5 years ago and has been happy with it.  I think it had a 9x49 table and cost about 10K at the time.  It's set up so that it can also be used manually. 

https://www.cncmasters.com/cnc-supra-vertical-milling-machine-catalogue/

I got this model (and installed a digital readout) back in 2009 and wish I had gone for full size CNC version instead. 

https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-8-x-30-1-1-2-HP-Variable-Speed-Vertical-Mill/G0678
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Ahmad_k
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« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2019, 12:12:01 00:12 »

just stay away from TB6550 drivers. They have a lot of problem (check cnczone for reviews). One of the best cheap drivers now are those based on THB6064 or LV8727.

These two chips are amazing,  low heat, no noise, no missing steps, limit current when the motor is not moving. LV8727 is easier to find
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hosmis
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« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2019, 07:56:28 07:56 »

What you're gonna use to do ?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32840845805.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.29fd1677YMkjIq&algo_pvid=9837e1eb-c392-4d97-bd98-8949010ce94f&algo_expid=9837e1eb-c392-4d97-bd98-8949010ce94f-0&btsid=b0c85cb8-406d-46db-8e26-0cdf75523f1c&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4,searchweb201603_55

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32907631620.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.38806aeaYcoV3G&algo_pvid=a89ba1d8-df96-4209-86f0-3fb8782f309f&algo_expid=a89ba1d8-df96-4209-86f0-3fb8782f309f-8&btsid=7779ba7f-f572-4a44-90b2-ea40e40dc0c2&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4,searchweb201603_55

usb or lpt interface

https://warp9td.com/

https://planet-cnc.com/

https://forum.hobbycnc.hu/

http://linuxcnc.org/  or  mach3-mach4 cnc ( artsoft  )

« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 08:00:09 08:00 by hosmis » Logged
intel
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2019, 09:56:58 09:56 »



 So this month, at least two weeks, I looked into this. My goal, all together, was to make a triple cnc that makes both 3D printer, engraver and laser cutting engraving. But it is impossible to bring products to our country via Aliexpress and Bangdood. Adding incredible taxes and profits on it means that we can't sell what we do.

 Someone above, does not work for my country. It works for hungry and ruthless traders.

 I wish you all the best for now. I hope I can make at least one toy cnc (!) In the future.
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pickit2
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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2019, 10:08:11 10:08 »

Second is a larger version of the 3040, y and x close to 3 times larger.
I stalled due to fixed or moving table. I may go to following the 3040.
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Parad1gm
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« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2019, 10:20:20 10:20 »


My plans were to put some peice if $#!T together using the parts I had mostly and then have it generate Revision 2. As of right now I'm thinking i may do that just so I have something a little bigger and start saving up for a 6040.  Ideally I would like it to be USB as I don't think I even have a pc kicking around that has a parallel port any more.

The thought of using mdf was squashed pretty quickly and am now considering using salvaged hardwood from pallets (Yes I know most are pine but you can also find some hard wood pallets) to build a torsion box and a gantry. I find myself very fustratingly limited by my current 200mm x 170mm cnc but its been great to learn on and get a better understanding.

I plan to cut mostly hardwoods and eventually if i get a rigid enough cnc some alu.  As for the specifics of what I'm going to make it will vary. Some stuff will be just etsy type things to try and generate some revenue as well as inlayed / embossed / debossed designs  of items that I could not put on etsy. (No not sex toys Tongue)

anyways that thoughts so far. Put something together with what i have so i can do some larger cuts even at a slow rate and work towards getting a 6040



Posted on: September 13, 2019, 10:09:37 10:09 - Automerged

just stay away from TB6550 drivers. They have a lot of problem (check cnczone for reviews). One of the best cheap drivers now are those based on THB6064 or LV8727.

These two chips are amazing,  low heat, no noise, no missing steps, limit current when the motor is not moving. LV8727 is easier to find

I stand corrected its tb6560 link provided below

http://www.cncgeeker.com/3-axis-tb6560-cnc-driver-board-4-stepper-motor-mill-cnc-router-p-41.html
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Wizpic
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« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2019, 11:30:18 11:30 »

Personally Iíd would not consider any type of wood, I think you will be wasting time and money on trying it, Iíve been there done that.

Trust me youíd be better off saving your money to buy a 6040. I spent just as much on the parts like the spindle rods and Nema motors and all the bearings and stuff like that. I would of had enough to nearly buy 2 6040ís
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Checksum8
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« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2019, 11:48:03 11:48 »

I just found this usb controller and software. Based on arduino as the usb interface and controller. Have not tried it yet. Still waiting for a arduino mega to test with. It is free to test but has some limits over the paid version. Maybe a talented member here can fix it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y4g8zBoOV0

https://www.estlcam.de/
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Parad1gm
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« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2019, 01:03:21 13:03 »

I just found this usb controller and software. Based on arduino as the usb interface and controller. Have not tried it yet. Still waiting for a arduino mega to test with. It is free to test but has some limits over the paid version. Maybe a talented member here can fix it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y4g8zBoOV0

https://www.estlcam.de/

That appears to just be a easy way to get grbl up and running on an arduino.  You don't need estlcam to do that.
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Checksum8
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2019, 01:40:38 13:40 »

That appears to just be a easy way to get grbl up and running on an arduino.  You don't need estlcam to do that.

How else are you going to run your G-code? Estlcam takes your g-code (tool path) and generates step/direction pulses. What is grbl? Been doing cnc for over 15 years and never heard of grbl
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mars01
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« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2019, 04:05:02 16:05 »

How else are you going to run your G-code? Estlcam takes your g-code (tool path) and generates step/direction pulses. What is grbl? Been doing cnc for over 15 years and never heard of grbl

GRBL (https://github.com/grbl/grbl) is a firmware (open-source) written for Arduino, that is turning an Arduino board (one with ATMEGA328 like Arduino Mini Pro etc) into a CNC-Controller. Coupled with a nice PC open-source software like bCNC (https://github.com/vlachoudis/bCNC), you can send the GCode from bCNC through the USB interface to the Arduino loaded with GRBL firmware which in turn will control the motor drivers (and also detect the sensors state sending it back to the PC software).

bCNC require that you have the Python toolchain installed on your PC.
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« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2019, 04:52:26 16:52 »

16mm is not big enough for X. You will get sag relative to the baseboard. I use 20mm and that still isn't good enough. You need 25mm or a supported rail with the open bottom bearings. TB6600 drivers are very cheap and work well - not TB6560. The cheap Chinese 100KHz USB Mach3 I/Fs also work well. Stay clear of those that use counterfeit PlanetCNC CNCUSB drivers,
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hosmis
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« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2019, 09:08:20 09:08 »

Who said, he wouldn't have CNC from MDF.     Smiley
If you're just gonna use it for wood

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=homemade+mdf+cnc+wood

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=homemade+mdf+cnc+pcb


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1_6vZKXZR0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smIi4zrfatw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjdXpp77MdU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tay5zPYahm0  
....ect...
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 09:13:35 09:13 by hosmis » Logged
Wizpic
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« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2019, 11:20:05 11:20 »

Yes there are plenty of videos showing you there home made CNCíS,but what they donít say how good they are, if you only want to mill wood with it then may be ok but I guess how good you want the tolerance to be, even milling wood I found it no good. I wanted mine for pcb work and found out that it was it was not good enough. Even though I copied plans and brought all the best parts for it thinking it was going to be good enough  .
Each to there own I guess, I leant the hard way,
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hosmis
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« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2019, 01:18:33 13:18 »

A novice makes a lot of mistakes.
You should do something simple and inexpensive before mistakes are too costly.
How the cnc works, which program is more suitable for the job, how much should be the size of the engine - driver - smps powers will do your job .. ??
After that you do something of good quality and expensive and solid.
Maybe it'il do what you do.
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Parad1gm
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« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2019, 04:39:58 16:39 »

16mm is not big enough for X. You will get sag relative to the baseboard. I use 20mm and that still isn't good enough. You need 25mm or a supported rail with the open bottom bearings. TB6600 drivers are very cheap and work well - not TB6560. The cheap Chinese 100KHz USB Mach3 I/Fs also work well. Stay clear of those that use counterfeit PlanetCNC CNCUSB drivers,

How do you feel about 16mm supported for the x (Ya I know you suggested that just stating it to be clear) and 16mm unsupported for the Y sinice it wont have as much weight on it. (1000mm in length for both)
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Wizpic
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« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2019, 06:24:06 18:24 »

How do you feel about 16mm supported for the x (Ya I know you suggested that just stating it to be clear) and 16mm unsupported for the Y sinice it wont have as much weight on it. (1000mm in length for both)

I used 20 or 25mm for the y and x and 16mm for the z along with the bearings.
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Parad1gm
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« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2019, 09:42:21 09:42 »

I've taken your advice and upgrading to T20 Supported Linear rails. My next question is does anyone see a problem using T8 lead screws to pushi the X and Y aound? (Dual lead screws for Y, one per side) and 1 for the X?

As an after thought I guess I should state that I'm thinking of making the gantry move and making the bed stationary
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 01:54:11 13:54 by Parad1gm » Logged
hosmis
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« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2019, 11:02:47 11:02 »

No matter how you do, you can't do anything delicate with linear Rail Shaft Rod bearings.
I recommend using Linear Guideway & Blocks.
Price difference is not much.
But it gives more precise results.

sample
https://www.banggood.com/SBR12-200mm-Linear-Rail-Shaft-Rod-with-2Pcs-SBR12UU-Blocks-Bearing-p-1194494.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc_ods&utm_content=aurogon&utm_campaign=aurogon-tools-sds-maxcov-feed-feed&ad_id=343417354738&gclid=CjwKCAjw5fzrBRASEiwAD2OSV7qNXmn9xFh01o9TMo1nOWhcnT06uDkObKwP7Eg9T1cndy6LQNndrxoCeUoQAvD_BwE&cur_warehouse=CN

I recommend using linear guide and rail.
sample
https://www.banggood.com/Machifit-HGR15-100-1200mm-Linear-Rail-Guide-with-HGH15CA-Linear-Rail-Guide-Slide-Block-CNC-Parts-p-1443398.html?rmmds=search&ID=534072&cur_warehouse=CN
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