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Author Topic: USB logic analyzer opinions  (Read 1971 times)
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dR-mR
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« on: October 06, 2017, 08:09:13 20:09 »

I am looking to buy logic analizer, i was looking on ebay and aliexpress for the usb logic analizers and there are a ton of them, from 40 to 200 usd are they worth the money?
What do you guys think about them?
Does enyone use som of the models from ebay/aliexpress?
Something like this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PC-USB-Logic-Analyzer-Hantek-LA5034-34CH-Sample-rate-500MHz-Bandwidth-150MHz-LA-5034/32737608375.html?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-Portable-2013-Newest-PC-USB-Logic-Analyzer-Hantek-4032L-Hot-selling/1400712493.html?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hantek-LA5034-Logic-Analyzer-USB-34CH-500MHz-Digital-Based-Virtual-Test-S0E0-/252827850741?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Logic-Analyzer-LA5016-PC-500MHz-Max-Sample-Rate-PWM-16Channels-5GB-Samples-/122398570614?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/H127-Hantek4032L-PC-USB-Logic-Analyzer-2Gbit-memory-depth-400MSa-s-sampling-rate-150MHz-bandwidth/32226793290.html?

Or maybe buy old standalone one for around 200
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papy_bidouille
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2017, 08:53:05 20:53 »

Hello
I use several times
http://www.zeroplus.com.tw/logic-analyzer_en/products.php?pdn=3&pdnex=61
I find it very good for the analysis of many protocol a forty I believe
http://www.pctestinstruments.com/
34 CHANNEL LA1034 LOGICPORT LOGIC ANALYZER
with it I removed some blocking code in I2c
very fast but a little expensive
JP
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h0nk
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2017, 10:24:26 22:24 »

Hello dR-mR,

You should try the Software for the LA's.
I would think that the software is separately available and supports a
"Demo Mode" without the actual device.
So You may be able to test the handling and the funtionality of the software.

I use a Hantek scope here, and i use only the driver from Hantek together
with a third party "DSO-TOOL". This was written with the user in mind.
As a personal opinion i would avoid software from Hantek.

For myself i use several Saleae-8 clones, one i build with a CY7C68013A-Evalboard
and for higher speeds and up to 32 input pins, i use OLS "OpenBench Logic Sniffer".
One is running on a dedicated OLS-Board, the other on a Spartan3A AVNET-Evalboard.
With a little work, both can use the advanced trigger of the LA-software/board
to trigger an external scope. This is very handy sometimes.


Best Regards

P.S.: I would also avoid old standalone LA's.
They are bulky, they are loud and the Mean Time Between Failures is mostly short.
They are great if You are doing retro projects and You are in luck and have the
specific probe for the processor/controller.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 10:48:28 22:48 by h0nk » Logged
towlerg
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2017, 12:55:18 12:55 »

My hand built Saleae clone (CY7C68013A breakout board and ROM and protection on a second stripe board) got a little wobbly so I took a small (less than £5 on ebay) chance that the latest clones had overcome the protection scheme. And low and behold, out of the box, it runs 1.2.14 quite happily.

So if your decision is cost sensitive, get one of these. And if its not, get one anyway. 
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pablo2048
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2017, 03:22:51 15:22 »

+1 for Saleae clone - I'm using clone on weekly basis and its very useful tool...
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PICker
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« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2017, 05:39:09 17:39 »

Why not an original Saleae?
https://www.saleae.com/#DatasheetTile
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jori
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2017, 06:54:11 18:54 »

ScanaQuad Logic Analyzers by ikalogic

https://ikalogic.com/pages/scanaquad-logic-analyzer

"ScanaQuad (SQ) is a series of 4 channels logic analyzers and digital pattern generators. They are your best companion when working on serial protocols like UART, SPI, I2C, 1-Wire, USB, I2S, CAN, LIN, RS232, RS485 (and more...). With ScanaQuad Logic Analyzers, you can capture digital signals, you can analyze them in depth, you can play them back, and you can even build genuine test signals and generate them."

Made in France Smiley
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ChristosSDR
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2017, 09:45:32 09:45 »

Choosing a logic analyzer depends on the type of use required.
For simple SPI/I2C/I2S or gpio tracing, I use a 5$ clone, did to it a hot-air gun rework (a bit of reflow) just to resolder any solderings needed.
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20170922021320&SearchText=USB+Logic+Analyze+24M+8CH
Still have it working ok some years now.
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dR-mR
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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2017, 03:20:49 15:20 »

I looked around the internet and now i am thinking for one of those two:
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Kingst-LA5016-USB-Logic-Analyzer-500M-max-sample-rate-16Channels-10B-samples-MCU-ARM-FPGA-debug/32774297984.html?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/H127-Hantek4032L-PC-USB-Logic-Analyzer-2Gbit-memory-depth-400MSa-s-sampling-rate-150MHz-bandwidth/32226793290.html?

Does someone has experience with those Logic analyzer?
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Old_but_Alive
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« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2017, 05:37:49 17:37 »

its all down to the software.

download the software  in demo mode , make sure its what you need.
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dR-mR
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« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2017, 06:39:22 18:39 »

My question is more towards the build quality on tbe logic analizer i dont want the la to die in 2 weeks.
i read somewhere that some sofware crashes often and resets every thing to default.
Are the specs mentioned on internet real or when i buy one of them, it won't work wit one third  of the specs?
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HackAndCrack
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« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2017, 06:50:56 18:50 »

I have Saleae Logic 8 Pro and Saleae Logic 16 Clone. Clone is designed for +/- 60V input. Clone is digital only but Pro 8 is digital + Analog. Both are good.
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crahak
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« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2017, 12:21:15 00:21 »

The Logic8 clones are dirt cheap and get the job done in most cases. The soldering and assembly quality isn't remarkable (like all $5 electronics) but so far I haven't seen one die (but that would be super easy and cheap to fix anyway -- or just buy another one at that price...) The logic16 is a *little* better. It has a few more channels (which have limited use in today's designs full of serial buses) and supposedly more stable at "somewhat higher" frequencies (neither will be able for fast buses anyway) but hardly worth the ~500% increase in cost. If the basic cheapo Logic8 clone isn't enough (with any of the compatible software -- Saleae/USBee/Sigrok/etc), then you'll probably want something far better (including having "proper" probes/grabbers), and like most good tools, that'll probably cost a lot of $. I have several tools for this (up to a half-decent 16 channel 100MHz one) but most of the time I just reach for the cheapo Logic8 clone and Sigrok's PulseView (great decoders, with stacking and all).
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towlerg
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« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2017, 05:13:09 17:13 »

Oh, just had a play with sigrok, much improved since I looked at it last. Very slick, professional feel to it. Like the idea of stacked protocols although I don't have anything to try it.

Worth looking at even if you're happy with Saleae, if for no other reason than it has a gazillion decoders.

Firmware is included in windows installer, clone ran out of the box.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 05:17:32 17:17 by towlerg » Logged

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crahak
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« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2017, 06:56:03 18:56 »

Very slick, professional feel to it.
I like it more than the "real" Saleae software.

Like the idea of stacked protocols although I don't have anything to try it.
I don't use it so often, but when you need it then it's very handy to have. For example, for an EEPROM, you can start with the I2C decoder and interpret it all by hand (quite easy but time consuming)... Or you can just stack the EEPROM decoder on top and see the results, no interpretation necessary.

if for no other reason than it has a gazillion decoders.
...and that it's easy to make your own (not that it's a super common need admittedly).

Anyway. It's pretty amazing what it can do with a simple Logic8 clone, on such a tiny budget (about the price one nice craft beer or one nice third-wave coffee shop's latté).
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Old_but_Alive
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« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2017, 04:19:51 16:19 »

I have a couple of Saleae logic 8's.

I quite like their software, but have always been annoyed that it wont do repeated triggering.

very useful feature so you can see errors or differences from capture to capture.

They keep saying its on their to-do list but it never gets done.

does Sigrok allow re-triggering ?
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zab
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« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2017, 08:08:29 20:08 »

The easiest is pickit 2 as logic analyzer.
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towlerg
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2017, 04:05:03 16:05 »

Quote
The easiest is pickit 2 as logic analyzer.

3 bits @ 1Mhz is a bit limiting and the software is a little primitive, although I see it's on the planned list for Pulseview. For 5 quid why bother? Only upside I see is that it saves a USB port, or the hassle of swapping.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 04:10:13 16:10 by towlerg » Logged

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PICker
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« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2017, 02:14:55 14:14 »

You can use also a cheap Arduino as logic analyzer:
https://create.arduino.cc/projecthub/vincenzo-g/diy-logic-analyzer-f61ee5
https://playground.arduino.cc/Main/LogicAnalyzer
http://www.instructables.com/id/Arduinolyzerjs-Turn-your-Arduino-into-a-Logic-Anal/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTEkUay_YMU
https://hackaday.io/project/1633-arduino-generic-logic-analyzer
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towlerg
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« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2017, 03:32:42 15:32 »

Great projects to learn about LA's but in actual use very slow and primitive software, for a fiver why bother? 
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dR-mR
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« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2017, 07:42:44 19:42 »

i ordered this
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Kingst-LA5016-USB-Logic-Analyzer-500M-max-sample-rate-16Channels-10B-samples-MCU-ARM-FPGA-debug/32774297984.html?
when it comes will see does it worth the money.
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crahak
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« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2017, 09:02:27 21:02 »

I dunno if it'll work with Sigrok (now or ever) as it's not on the compatibility list, so I hope the proprietary Chinese software won't be too awful...

As for 500MHz, that's beyond wishful thinking. Sure, you can sample a slow signal super fast (which is quite pointless), but that design with totally inadequate "dupont"-based probes (high inductance/high capacitance, coupled with super ghetto grabbers and all -- which is perfectly adequate for a $5 Logic8 clone) isn't gonna get close to sampling signals anywhere near this fast... If anything it'll just interfere with the signal integrity to the point of making those fast signals stop working. It should be able to do around 60MHz or so (perhaps 75). It doesn't appear much better than a $35 Logic16 clone (but almost as expensive as the real thing), sorry Sad
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« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2017, 09:22:03 21:22 »

Well it's listed BW is 99MHz , so it might get close to that as constructed, but yes you are right on the money in that you get what you pay for.
I have a Lecroy LogicStudio and a mcupro SL 16 clone..  They both serve a purpose ...That KingST seems expensive when the real thing isn't far off .. JMHO
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dR-mR
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« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2017, 12:32:50 00:32 »

On Sigrok support site it says work in progress for Kingst LA2016, as I understand Kingst LA2016 is very similar to Kingst LA5016 so it should work when the support is added.
for the capabilities and the quality in probably  owerpayd  but thet is that.   Cheesy
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« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2017, 08:07:24 20:07 »

I use TechTools' DigiView DV3200 http://www.tech-tools.com/DV3200-logic-analyzer.htm.

Key features: works on maximum sampling rate with minor influence on capture duration because of real time compression. The limiting factor is amount of information (transitions). Having 200/400 MHz sampling rate with 18/9 channels and plenty of buffer (9 Mbit) drifts my usage of logic analyzer to some kind of hardware debugger for firmware.

Target interfaces plus one serial trace output (at maximum rate) in one synchronous view - it is like my electronic eyes. More often it clarifies shaded places in firmware better than software debug tools with breakpoints. I mean when you do not know an exact problem exists you need to see not only a final result as "file is read" but also how result is obtained to see potential flaws. Using third party or even provided by original manufacturer "ready to use" libraries you also can not trust them without deep check. Maybe it could be named as "hardware profiler" too.

In fact couple of times I needed captures that lasted several hours to check stand-by periods of my board working in connection with vehicle with its own stand-by periods. And without need to decrease sampling rate for active periods. Very useful.

Another great feature - you can write your own decoder for custom signal format. And I use it. Even though for some protocols I have my own analyzers "Protocol->RS232->PC" for reverse engineering and for protocol stack development, missing translation of transmitted information in logic analyzer's log is not comfortable.

I expect that most of my usage cases are not specific to chosen analyzer. I just summarize what makes me satisfied.

New successor DV518 https://www.tech-tools.com/DV518-logic-analyzer.htm is smaller, has bigger memory (128 Mbit), wider range for threshold (-4V..+4V), uses USB 3.0 thus has a streaming mode with limit up to 100 million transitions (up to 1Gsps). This probably will be my next.
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