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Author Topic: Electroplating Power Supply  (Read 6738 times)
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Ichan
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« on: September 17, 2007, 03:11:54 15:11 »

Hi,

I need to build an electroplating power supply, current regulated 0 - 50 Ampere.

Any one? Some info about pulse plating power supply will be a luxurious gift..

Regards, Ichan.
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Taner
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2007, 08:49:05 20:49 »

what is a output voltage
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Ichan
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« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2007, 04:07:40 16:07 »

Not more than 20V, for copper electroplating.
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Taner
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« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2007, 09:26:53 21:26 »

Hi Friend,
you must use a 1kW transformer, and a thyristor phase regulation in the primary side of transformer (or regulated AC switch). In the secondary side you will use only a rectifier.
Transformer must be a step-down type (220V(110V) to 20V).
Best regards: Taner
« Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 09:43:17 21:43 by Taner » Logged
oscar
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« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2007, 09:48:33 21:48 »

you can use any battery of automotive,, just need the thirystor for make swiching,,o transistor of hig power ,cas meke the swuchin whin the ic lm555,
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Taner
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« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2007, 10:19:31 22:19 »

Look at this circuits for some examples.
 Smiley
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Ichan
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2007, 05:33:40 17:33 »

Look at this circuits for some examples.
 Smiley

Thanks Taner, I don't know how to use thyristor to regulate current and  I cant see any circuit on your post, possibly because I'm an "inactive" one.

Could you please send it to me at c_irawan@hotmail.com ?

Best Regards, Ichan.
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Ichan
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2007, 10:56:03 10:56 »

Hi Taner I've received your emailed picture, Thanks a lot. There's no practical information on how is the gate control should be, if you have the schematic for it then please send it to me again.

Actually I was thinking about using PWM driven H-Bridge to control the current, just like in motor contol circuitry, the advantage is we can switch the polarity too for pulse plating. Is it workable for elctroplating?

Best regards, Ichan.

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Taner
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« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2007, 12:13:42 00:13 »

Hi Ichan,
my teacher making a electroplating control circuits with AC thyristor switches and using a phase control scheme. But you can make it with H-Bridge and PWM control scheme. Then you can use a standard
PWM control chips, like TL494, drivers, and MOSFET transisitors for H-Bridge.
Best regards: Taner
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microtest
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« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2007, 12:13:40 00:13 »

this is Electrochemistry for plating you need no more 6 volts and the current is F(X) of area is like 6 Amp. / feet 2 or some like this if you put more volts is ok you have more amps. but the problem come in the future
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zawmintun1
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« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2007, 08:38:22 08:38 »

I need to know about electroplating method for  iron metal and copper how to make
Which electrolyte must be used?
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looser
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« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2007, 01:44:02 13:44 »

Ichan
There is another method u can use to regulate current more or less like thyrisors control. Use  ordinary dimmer control. Take a dimmer and connect the primary of your transformer like you are connecting an incandescent lamp. ( a small hint: You may keep the lamp there both to visualise the the dim ratio and smooth the triac firing couse annoying noise in the transformer without.) And as said above use a high current bridge rectifier on the secondary.



Posted on: December 31, 2007, 01:22:24 13:22 - Automerged

zawmintun1
Whichever material you are planning to electroplate you need to use the salt of that material basicly.
For instance if you are planning to plate with Copper try to obtain CuSO4 (Cupric sulphate; a  dark blue beautiful crystals ) Than dissolve them into water. For experimental purpose you do not neet to do any calculation about solution etc. Prepare the volume of solution as you will be able to immerse the target material into. And dissolve theCuSO4 to make dark . Apply DC to your target and the Cu electrode you are to nibble from to your target.

Watch not to touch the two piece in the solution. Just two three volt is enough . The more you increase the voltage ( couse you increase the current )the more you transfer the ions to target. The thicker the plate.
You will at the end a dull cupper and you  can polish it with a fast turning brush.
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leptro
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« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2008, 12:39:54 12:39 »

ichan

do you want to use electroplating for pcb?

i am looking for a cheap way make the holes sensitive for a double sided pcd..please can you share if it's for this application.


regards
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Ichan
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« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2008, 04:31:45 16:31 »

@looser
Thanks for the dimmer trick, must try it someday. Currently I use a kind of "electronic dummy load" 20A, I think its come from an old Elektor magazine. In a need for higher current, I am thinking about PWM current control with H-Bridge, but I'm not sure how the pwm freqeuency will affect the plating characteristic, low pass filter will be needed, but how? The advantage will be a possibilities to do "reverse pulse plating", that what's on my mind.

@leptro
Yes, I'm doing pcb plating. The most common method to activate the hole is with "electroless copper plating", but it's a messy thing and the chemicals is difficult to control. The other way is "direct plating" and conductive carbon is the cheapest alternative.

Regards, Ichan.
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looser
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« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2008, 11:38:10 11:38 »

Ichan

Tell me are you to apply your H brigge directly to your solution or will there be a HF transformer in between.
Second What is the voltage you are to run your H bridge ( if you think to run direct to solution)
Regarding higher frequencies do not expect the ions move in the solution as fast your pwm turns on. Go for low frequency. A 50hz ( or 60) chopping from the mains sounds good.
regards.
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Ichan
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« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2008, 07:26:09 07:26 »

Yes, H-bridge output will go to the tank without transformer in between, perhaps an LC filter will be needed but do not know how to calculate the values. The main purpose of the H-bridge is to to switch polarity, the other purpose is as a pwm switcher of current control. The voltage of the H-Bridge won't go over 12V.

If its not possible to do a pwm current control for electroplating then it might be possible to put a linear current limiter in series with the H-Bridge, in this case the H-Bridge only act as polarity switcher.

What do you think?

Regards, Ichan.
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zawmintun1
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« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2008, 04:17:11 16:17 »

Hello Sonsivri Friends
Please also know me about Copper Plating with Lead on copper Rod
Copper Rod Plate with Lead is used as BusBar for Electrical Wiring
I want to make above
Please what Electrolyte used & how to immerse Plates as Positive or Negative
Plaese explain completely
Thank a Lot Sonsivri Brothers
Long Live Sonsivri

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looser
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« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2008, 09:06:46 09:06 »

Ichan
As I said the process works like a slow motion. Physicaly you can not move the ions from one electrode to other faster. So if you would use pwm and H bridge direct into solution do not go frequencies above 100- 200Hz. Set up an oscillator from logic gates and adjust the duty cycle and drive your power bridge with it.
For such a set you would not believe how simple low pass filter you can use. A big volue capacitor only.
It is a simple circuit and will let you adjust perfectly the rate of plating. I can even draw you a schematics and scan to post but I do not know how to attach it to post area.

Regards.
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Ichan
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« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2008, 08:33:00 20:33 »

Hi Looser, I've try to search the web for days with no significant info found, here is the best thing I got. From the pictures the plating tank modeled as RC, to bad I even don't know what the language is.

Regards, Ichan.



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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2008, 08:57:58 08:57 »

Ichan

thanks for the help.
In the attachment I tried to draw a schematic for bridge. I guess we will talk about this some more. Check first.

Posted on: January 08, 2008, 06:55:08 18:55 - Automerged

zawmintun1
To plate with lead first try to find any lead salt like ie, lead sulphate PbSO4. Rest is same procedure. Hang a piece of lead to one side and the cupper to the other you want to plate onto. apply dc and observe the accumulation.
Dont be afraid to apply. A very precise calculated operation can be achieved but at the end you will see that it is a waste of time. Jump in the application.

Ichan
For power transformer 12-16V secondary say 20-30A will suit.If you need more power it is up to you .Bridge rectifier has to handle the surrent. (Hint: Auto alternator brige will perfect to)
The capacitor C after bridge can be as big as you can find, no limit. The mosfets would be better if you can use those very low forward resistance like 0,1ohms  or less since the voltage is 12 v and c current is too high heating will destroy your fets. Again mount them onto a large pieces of aluminum.
The C capacitor between the electrodes  has to be polarityless. You may use two 4700 or 6800uF electrolytic capacitor and connect them serialy but notice connect the two negative end or positive. Than you will have a capacitor both leg is positive or negative.

Regards.
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zawmintun1
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2008, 04:16:30 16:16 »

Thank a Lot Ichan & looser
Peace upon for you all
Its a great Reply , Thank
SONSIVRI & all
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Ichan
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2008, 05:35:05 17:35 »

Nice hand drawing Looser, and it make the picture of the whole idea.

Some comments:
- I think mosfet driving need special attention as the output is high current.
- In PPR (Periodic Pulse Reverse) plating, the wave output is asymmetric.
- I like the idea of capacitor in series to make non-polarized capacitor.
- That way the inductor can be small, i think.

This is going to be interesting, I'll start to draw something, give some couple of days.

@zawmintun1
I know nothing on lead plating - it's unusual, Tin-Lead or Tin alone are more common.


Best Regards, Ichan.

PS: Looser, i saw somewhere in this board that your current interest is about Induction Heating, how it's going?
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looser
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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2008, 06:34:13 18:34 »

Yes you got the points. Regarding the inductor let the wire diameter be something like 2 mm2.
If hard to find or wound  parallel 4 of  0,5mm2 enamelled wire.

Yes still interested. Surfing the web and collect more data.
Mine is a bit critical. The load in induction heating is almost zero ohm for DC. The elements defining the resonance has not much tolerance. Since the supply  is 220V and if the impedance is not matched  with respect to your frequency you will blow up the power fets or igbt's.

Trying to think 20 times before the physical application.

Regards.

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Ichan
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« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2008, 07:10:02 19:10 »

I plan to start drawing something, it will be my case on learning how to use Proteus - so it will take some time.

On this stage, I need to decide:
- power mosfet (IRFZ44 in parallel?, this is what i currently have on hand)
- mosfet driver (IR21xx family?)
- pwm freq (about 14Khz?)
- output inductor value (just start with 1mH?)
- uC (AVR or PIC or what? An internal analog comparator would be an advantage for current sensing/limiting)


@Looser
Me too interested in Induction Heating. Friend of mine asked me if i can repair his company Induction Sealer, 4KW water cooled... my answer was: ok, if you allow me to return it in small pieces...  Grin

I started a new topic about Induction heating, please contribute:

http://www.sonsivri.com/forum/index.php?topic=9578.0

Best Regards, Ichan.
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looser
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« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2008, 02:31:00 14:31 »

Ichan

Looks fine. go ahead.
You will see current current sensing will be a luxurious addition.

For sure I will contribute the new topic.
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