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Author Topic: Electroplating Power Supply  (Read 11491 times)
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Ichan
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« on: September 17, 2007, 02:11:54 14:11 »

Hi,

I need to build an electroplating power supply, current regulated 0 - 50 Ampere.

Any one? Some info about pulse plating power supply will be a luxurious gift..

Regards, Ichan.
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Taner
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2007, 07:49:05 19:49 »

what is a output voltage
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Ichan
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« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2007, 03:07:40 15:07 »

Not more than 20V, for copper electroplating.
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Taner
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« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2007, 08:26:53 20:26 »

Hi Friend,
you must use a 1kW transformer, and a thyristor phase regulation in the primary side of transformer (or regulated AC switch). In the secondary side you will use only a rectifier.
Transformer must be a step-down type (220V(110V) to 20V).
Best regards: Taner
« Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 08:43:17 20:43 by Taner » Logged
oscar
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« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2007, 08:48:33 20:48 »

you can use any battery of automotive,, just need the thirystor for make swiching,,o transistor of hig power ,cas meke the swuchin whin the ic lm555,
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Taner
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« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2007, 09:19:31 21:19 »

Look at this circuits for some examples.
 Smiley
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Ichan
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2007, 04:33:40 16:33 »

Look at this circuits for some examples.
 Smiley

Thanks Taner, I don't know how to use thyristor to regulate current and  I cant see any circuit on your post, possibly because I'm an "inactive" one.

Could you please send it to me at [email protected] ?

Best Regards, Ichan.
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Ichan
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2007, 09:56:03 09:56 »

Hi Taner I've received your emailed picture, Thanks a lot. There's no practical information on how is the gate control should be, if you have the schematic for it then please send it to me again.

Actually I was thinking about using PWM driven H-Bridge to control the current, just like in motor contol circuitry, the advantage is we can switch the polarity too for pulse plating. Is it workable for elctroplating?

Best regards, Ichan.

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Taner
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2007, 11:13:42 23:13 »

Hi Ichan,
my teacher making a electroplating control circuits with AC thyristor switches and using a phase control scheme. But you can make it with H-Bridge and PWM control scheme. Then you can use a standard
PWM control chips, like TL494, drivers, and MOSFET transisitors for H-Bridge.
Best regards: Taner
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microtest
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« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2007, 11:13:40 23:13 »

this is Electrochemistry for plating you need no more 6 volts and the current is F(X) of area is like 6 Amp. / feet 2 or some like this if you put more volts is ok you have more amps. but the problem come in the future
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zawmintun1
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« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2007, 07:38:22 07:38 »

I need to know about electroplating method for  iron metal and copper how to make
Which electrolyte must be used?
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looser
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« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2007, 12:44:02 12:44 »

Ichan
There is another method u can use to regulate current more or less like thyrisors control. Use  ordinary dimmer control. Take a dimmer and connect the primary of your transformer like you are connecting an incandescent lamp. ( a small hint: You may keep the lamp there both to visualise the the dim ratio and smooth the triac firing couse annoying noise in the transformer without.) And as said above use a high current bridge rectifier on the secondary.



Posted on: December 31, 2007, 01:22:24 13:22 - Automerged

zawmintun1
Whichever material you are planning to electroplate you need to use the salt of that material basicly.
For instance if you are planning to plate with Copper try to obtain CuSO4 (Cupric sulphate; a  dark blue beautiful crystals ) Than dissolve them into water. For experimental purpose you do not neet to do any calculation about solution etc. Prepare the volume of solution as you will be able to immerse the target material into. And dissolve theCuSO4 to make dark . Apply DC to your target and the Cu electrode you are to nibble from to your target.

Watch not to touch the two piece in the solution. Just two three volt is enough . The more you increase the voltage ( couse you increase the current )the more you transfer the ions to target. The thicker the plate.
You will at the end a dull cupper and you  can polish it with a fast turning brush.
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leptro
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« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2008, 11:39:54 11:39 »

ichan

do you want to use electroplating for pcb?

i am looking for a cheap way make the holes sensitive for a double sided pcd..please can you share if it's for this application.


regards
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Ichan
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« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2008, 03:31:45 15:31 »

@looser
Thanks for the dimmer trick, must try it someday. Currently I use a kind of "electronic dummy load" 20A, I think its come from an old Elektor magazine. In a need for higher current, I am thinking about PWM current control with H-Bridge, but I'm not sure how the pwm freqeuency will affect the plating characteristic, low pass filter will be needed, but how? The advantage will be a possibilities to do "reverse pulse plating", that what's on my mind.

@leptro
Yes, I'm doing pcb plating. The most common method to activate the hole is with "electroless copper plating", but it's a messy thing and the chemicals is difficult to control. The other way is "direct plating" and conductive carbon is the cheapest alternative.

Regards, Ichan.
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looser
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« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2008, 10:38:10 10:38 »

Ichan

Tell me are you to apply your H brigge directly to your solution or will there be a HF transformer in between.
Second What is the voltage you are to run your H bridge ( if you think to run direct to solution)
Regarding higher frequencies do not expect the ions move in the solution as fast your pwm turns on. Go for low frequency. A 50hz ( or 60) chopping from the mains sounds good.
regards.
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Ichan
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« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2008, 06:26:09 06:26 »

Yes, H-bridge output will go to the tank without transformer in between, perhaps an LC filter will be needed but do not know how to calculate the values. The main purpose of the H-bridge is to to switch polarity, the other purpose is as a pwm switcher of current control. The voltage of the H-Bridge won't go over 12V.

If its not possible to do a pwm current control for electroplating then it might be possible to put a linear current limiter in series with the H-Bridge, in this case the H-Bridge only act as polarity switcher.

What do you think?

Regards, Ichan.
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zawmintun1
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« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2008, 03:17:11 15:17 »

Hello Sonsivri Friends
Please also know me about Copper Plating with Lead on copper Rod
Copper Rod Plate with Lead is used as BusBar for Electrical Wiring
I want to make above
Please what Electrolyte used & how to immerse Plates as Positive or Negative
Plaese explain completely
Thank a Lot Sonsivri Brothers
Long Live Sonsivri

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looser
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« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2008, 08:06:46 08:06 »

Ichan
As I said the process works like a slow motion. Physicaly you can not move the ions from one electrode to other faster. So if you would use pwm and H bridge direct into solution do not go frequencies above 100- 200Hz. Set up an oscillator from logic gates and adjust the duty cycle and drive your power bridge with it.
For such a set you would not believe how simple low pass filter you can use. A big volue capacitor only.
It is a simple circuit and will let you adjust perfectly the rate of plating. I can even draw you a schematics and scan to post but I do not know how to attach it to post area.

Regards.
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Ichan
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« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2008, 07:33:00 19:33 »

Hi Looser, I've try to search the web for days with no significant info found, here is the best thing I got. From the pictures the plating tank modeled as RC, to bad I even don't know what the language is.

Regards, Ichan.



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looser
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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2008, 07:57:58 07:57 »

Ichan

thanks for the help.
In the attachment I tried to draw a schematic for bridge. I guess we will talk about this some more. Check first.

Posted on: January 08, 2008, 06:55:08 18:55 - Automerged

zawmintun1
To plate with lead first try to find any lead salt like ie, lead sulphate PbSO4. Rest is same procedure. Hang a piece of lead to one side and the cupper to the other you want to plate onto. apply dc and observe the accumulation.
Dont be afraid to apply. A very precise calculated operation can be achieved but at the end you will see that it is a waste of time. Jump in the application.

Ichan
For power transformer 12-16V secondary say 20-30A will suit.If you need more power it is up to you .Bridge rectifier has to handle the surrent. (Hint: Auto alternator brige will perfect to)
The capacitor C after bridge can be as big as you can find, no limit. The mosfets would be better if you can use those very low forward resistance like 0,1ohms  or less since the voltage is 12 v and c current is too high heating will destroy your fets. Again mount them onto a large pieces of aluminum.
The C capacitor between the electrodes  has to be polarityless. You may use two 4700 or 6800uF electrolytic capacitor and connect them serialy but notice connect the two negative end or positive. Than you will have a capacitor both leg is positive or negative.

Regards.
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2008, 03:16:30 15:16 »

Thank a Lot Ichan & looser
Peace upon for you all
Its a great Reply , Thank
SONSIVRI & all
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Ichan
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2008, 04:35:05 16:35 »

Nice hand drawing Looser, and it make the picture of the whole idea.

Some comments:
- I think mosfet driving need special attention as the output is high current.
- In PPR (Periodic Pulse Reverse) plating, the wave output is asymmetric.
- I like the idea of capacitor in series to make non-polarized capacitor.
- That way the inductor can be small, i think.

This is going to be interesting, I'll start to draw something, give some couple of days.

@zawmintun1
I know nothing on lead plating - it's unusual, Tin-Lead or Tin alone are more common.


Best Regards, Ichan.

PS: Looser, i saw somewhere in this board that your current interest is about Induction Heating, how it's going?
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looser
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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2008, 05:34:13 17:34 »

Yes you got the points. Regarding the inductor let the wire diameter be something like 2 mm2.
If hard to find or wound  parallel 4 of  0,5mm2 enamelled wire.

Yes still interested. Surfing the web and collect more data.
Mine is a bit critical. The load in induction heating is almost zero ohm for DC. The elements defining the resonance has not much tolerance. Since the supply  is 220V and if the impedance is not matched  with respect to your frequency you will blow up the power fets or igbt's.

Trying to think 20 times before the physical application.

Regards.

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Ichan
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« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2008, 06:10:02 18:10 »

I plan to start drawing something, it will be my case on learning how to use Proteus - so it will take some time.

On this stage, I need to decide:
- power mosfet (IRFZ44 in parallel?, this is what i currently have on hand)
- mosfet driver (IR21xx family?)
- pwm freq (about 14Khz?)
- output inductor value (just start with 1mH?)
- uC (AVR or PIC or what? An internal analog comparator would be an advantage for current sensing/limiting)


@Looser
Me too interested in Induction Heating. Friend of mine asked me if i can repair his company Induction Sealer, 4KW water cooled... my answer was: ok, if you allow me to return it in small pieces...  Grin

I started a new topic about Induction heating, please contribute:

http://www.sonsivri.com/forum/index.php?topic=9578.0

Best Regards, Ichan.
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looser
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« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2008, 01:31:00 13:31 »

Ichan

Looks fine. go ahead.
You will see current current sensing will be a luxurious addition.

For sure I will contribute the new topic.
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Ichan
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« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2008, 04:23:55 16:23 »

Well, too much time browsing and downloading, much less time on working!!!

Just found a better refference from IEEE transaction... A microcomputer Controlled Current Source.

Regards, Ichan.
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« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2008, 05:08:11 17:08 »

Ichan 
it is  a very luxurious circuit for a slow motion process. Ultimate solution indeed.

To me, simple controller is the best. One thing to remember; if you will prepare a small bath and hung the pieces to plate make sure rotate the pieces continuously to provide evenly coated.
regards.
 
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« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2008, 05:44:36 17:44 »

i have some exprience with pth pro.  when i training in pth i have collect data for chemical.  rest of u.


 PTH
-------

1. Cleaner Conditioner 5 liter:
  / Unicon 150 CX - 5% /
  / Rest water   95%   /  Temp=60' Time 8-12 min

2. Micro Etch 5kg
  / Micro Etch 281 -  150gm/L /
  / Sulfuric acid - 15 ml/L   /
  / Water         - 1 liter   / room temp, 1-2 min

3. Pre Dip 5kg

   /HCL - 150 mil/L           /
   / PD 237 - 150 gm/L        /
   / Water                    / r.t  time 1-5min

4. Activator

   /Water - 600 ml            /
   / HCL  200ml               /
   / PD 237  - 150 gm         /
   / Additive 410 - 20ml      /
   / Catalyst C-100  -50ml    / time 8-10 min

5. Acceleratar
   / Accelerator 893 - 20%    / r.t 4-5 min

6. Electroless copper 5 liter
   / MEC Cu 806 A  - 100 ml  /
   / MEC Cu 806 B  - 100ml   /
   / Water         - 800ml   / temp 25-30'C 20 min

7. Acid Dip
   / Sulfuric Acid 5%         time 2 min

8. Acid Copper 5 kg For bath

   / Copper Sulphate   - 80 gm/l /
   / Sulphuric Acid    - 100 ml/l/
   / Additive Cu 844   ml/l      /
   / Water                       / 25Amp/SqFeet time 10-15 min


9. Cu 856 - 1-2%

dry

Brushing --> lamination With Dry Flim ---> Exposing ---> Developing ---> Sodium Carbonet 1-2%



1. Acid Cleaner  / AC-10 %    / time 35-40 min

2. Micro Etch
  / ME 281 - 50gm/l /
  / sulfuric acid  -15ml/li   /
  / Water                     / 1-2 min

3. Acid Dip H2SO4 -5%    time 1-2 min

4. Copper Plating  time 30-45 min

5. Acid Dip H2SO4- 5%

6. Acid Tin:

   / Stannaus Sulphate - 30 gm/l    /
   / H2SO4      - 100 ml/l          /
   / stanolex A    - 40ml/l         /
   / Stanolex B   - 2.5ml/l         /  time 10-15 min in bath
 
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Ichan
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« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2008, 09:11:08 21:11 »

Hi Looser, me too loves simplicity. This became more complex as Periodic Pulse Reverse (PPR) Plating features included, and the current somewhat high. I do have a 20A linear current regulator for my plating tank, in a search for a better design with higher current i found that PPR thing.

Some good features of PPR:
- can plate copper without additive (is this true?)
- uniform plating thickness of hole wall (eliminate "dog boning" shape)
- can fill blind via (i dont need this)
- shorter plating time (because of more uniform plating thickness)
- can be used as electro-cleaning supply
- posibilities to do integral coloring on anodizing

@Sohel
Thank you for sharing PTH plating procedure. The propietary chemical used is the most difficult thing to purchase for DIY'er like me. Do you have chemical formulation of those propietary chemicals? What was the activator and accelerator made from?

Regards, Ichan.
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looser
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« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2008, 10:09:29 10:09 »

Ichan
I had no chance to compare the advantage of reverse pulse plating to conventional method but it may help to uniform plating becouse accelerating the ions from one electrode to other but suddenly stop and force them back shortly and accelerate again the same way before may provide chance to all ions move linear along all the solution. And this may couse the uniform plating.
Either way possible for a plating but again bear in mind that moving and rounding in the bath is a must becouse ions are clever to go the shortest distance. You need to fake them and point the hard to reach sides of your target to those clever ions to stick on as if the shortest path is that.

If we start from the beginig of the plating
1- clean the target mechanicaly.  may use fine sand paper, powder detergant like  vim or even scotch brite like hard cleaners.
2-wash it
3-dip it into sulphuric acid solution for couple of minute. Can find H2SO4 from plumbing suppliers. Watch it. If pure, it is very irritating. Take a liter of water and add very very very  slowly 5% acit onto. Notice I SAID SLOOOOOOWLY
4-make a bath of disolved ordinary laundry soda.( can be any amount till saturation)  hang the pieces in and apply voltage like plating. ( javex like ready agents will work fine )
you will see millions of buble .This will clean from oil like deposits and films .
5-wash again without touching.
6-plate in your bath.

regards.
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« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2008, 10:25:21 10:25 »


@Sohel
Thank you for sharing PTH plating procedure. The propietary chemical used is the most difficult thing to purchase for DIY'er like me. Do you have chemical formulation of those propietary chemicals? What was the activator and accelerator made from?

Regards, Ichan.
[/quote]

For ur information, i have learn how pth bath make long time ago from india. (delhi) . let me check his address then i can send u all reference. he will help u all thing. most helpfull men in pth. but one thing u may work on it ,or it demage solution if it not work contunue. first u need all chemical then upgrade chemical bath with some chemical. so its not for hobby.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 10:31:26 10:31 by sohel » Logged
sellful
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« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2008, 03:17:47 15:17 »

See Link :
http://www.dioda.ro/tutorial/TroughHole_MZingg/Welcome%20to%20the%20homebrew%20through%20plating%20machine.html
http://www.dioda.ro/tutorial/TroughHole_MZingg/Welcome%20to%20the%20homebrew%20through%20plating%20machine.html
http://www.dioda.ro/tutorial/TroughHole_MZingg/Welcome%20to%20the%20homebrew%20through%20plating%20machine2.html
http://www.dioda.ro/tutorial/TroughHole_MZingg/Welcome%20to%20the%20homebrew%20through%20plating%20machine2.html
http://www.dioda.ro/tutorial/TroughHole_MZingg/Welcome%20to%20the%20homebrew%20through%20plating%20machine3.html
http://www.dioda.ro/tutorial/TroughHole_MZingg/Welcome%20to%20the%20homebrew%20through%20plating%20machine3.html
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http://www.dioda.ro/tutorial/TroughHole_MZingg/Welcome%20to%20the%20homebrew%20through%20plating%20machine5.html
http://www.dioda.ro/tutorial/TroughHole_MZingg/Welcome%20to%20the%20homebrew%20through%20plating%20machine5.html
http://www.dioda.ro/tutorial/TroughHole_MZingg/Welcome%20to%20the%20homebrew%20through%20plating%20machine6.html
http://www.dioda.ro/tutorial/TroughHole_MZingg/Welcome%20to%20the%20homebrew%20through%20plating%20machine6.html
http://www.dioda.ro/tutorial/TroughHole_MZingg/Welcome%20to%20the%20homebrew%20through%20plating%20machine7.html
http://www.dioda.ro/tutorial/TroughHole_MZingg/Welcome%20to%20the%20homebrew%20through%20plating%20machine7.html
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Ichan
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« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2008, 06:40:06 18:40 »

Hi, thanks for the link, I believe the pages owned by Marcuss Zing. I use his trick on making solder paste stencil from dry-film photoresist and aluminum foil, i read it on homebrew_pcb google group (I'm a lurker there  Grin). The difference is i use much thicker aluminum sheet, 0.1 mm, it's stiffer but then it fails on very fine pitch footprint. It will be much easier to understand by seeing a picture, here i attach a picture of my homebrew pcb and stencil.

Back to the power supply, i am getting it very slow on the drawing. I just finished installing the Proteus and watching the video tutorial from Smainj, a very good jump start video.

Regards, Ichan.
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