Sonsivri
 
*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 22, 2021, 10:18:10 22:18


Login with username, password and session length


Pages: 1 2 3 [All]
Print
Author Topic: Velleman K7200 Gerber file  (Read 5808 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« on: October 22, 2020, 07:44:43 19:44 »

This is my take on the all in one PCB, I want to be able to send them off to a PCB house and want to make sure everything is there or not need to be there before I send them off.

Hopefully it will look like what's in the pic with dome bare tracks to put extra solder to help carry the current.

So if someone could check and verify for me 

Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
optikon
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 821

Thank You
-Given: 991
-Receive: 1956


« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2020, 12:28:46 12:28 »

I checked it in a CAM tool

I did some basic DFM on it. I think it looks ok, but have some notes below

Notes
1) Min space found ~15 mil - no concern
2) Min trace found = 5 mil - (Check with Vendor, some charge extra for below 6 mil) looks easy to fix.
3) Smallest hole 28 mil - no concern
4) Top and bottom paste layers are empty except for a border outline which doesn't make sense. I can see this is a through hole design so I assume you will not be sending paste layers to vendor. In this case, no issue just that I am not sure of your intention. I would leave out GTP & GBP

Which Vendor will you take this to? We can look at their design rules . .
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 12:34:53 12:34 by optikon » Logged

I can explain this to you. I can't comprehend it for you.
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2020, 08:26:17 20:26 »

Thanks for taking a look, I don't normally use through hole always SMT but as I could not find the SMT version of the LM723 I decided to stick with through hole.

Hopefully the pink and orange tracks in your pic should mean they will show the bare track with no green mask on them so I can add extra solder.

I've checked with the manufacture  specs as it's from a company in China of Ebay.

There spec is Min. Line Width:3mil, Min. Line Spacing:3mil so I guess this meets there spec.

I have looked at the JLC PCB service seems reasonable price and seen many people mention them in there videos.
I cold up-load the complete altium files if need be or any one is interested in it

Wizpic
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
optikon
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 821

Thank You
-Given: 991
-Receive: 1956


« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2020, 12:40:15 00:40 »

Thanks for taking a look, I don't normally use through hole always SMT but as I could not find the SMT version of the LM723 I decided to stick with through hole.

Hopefully the pink and orange tracks in your pic should mean they will show the bare track with no green mask on them so I can add extra solder.

I've checked with the manufacture  specs as it's from a company in China of Ebay.

There spec is Min. Line Width:3mil, Min. Line Spacing:3mil so I guess this meets there spec.

I have looked at the JLC PCB service seems reasonable price and seen many people mention them in there videos.
I cold up-load the complete altium files if need be or any one is interested in it

Wizpic

The 3 mil spec though is at the limit of their capability and those who use it will pay BIG $$$ for that. Generally, the China places will tell you where that transition is from cheap to added price. Even though they could do 5 mil, do you want to pay more if 6 mil was a lot cheaper?

You should find out - its not about their max capability, its about where that low cost price ends.

Logged

I can explain this to you. I can't comprehend it for you.
Sideshow Bob
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 799

Thank You
-Given: 212
-Receive: 773



« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2020, 10:36:50 10:36 »

What will be the correct thread for the schematics used for this PCB
Logged

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2020, 02:10:56 14:10 »

Slideshow Bob,
I will upload the Altium files or if you prefer I can convert to pdf and upload here.

Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Sideshow Bob
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 799

Thank You
-Given: 212
-Receive: 773



« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2020, 03:44:01 15:44 »

Slideshow Bob,
I will upload the Altium files or if you prefer I can convert to pdf and upload here.


If you can do one or both it would be appreciated.
Logged

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2020, 05:00:05 17:00 »

If you can do one or both it would be appreciated.

Here you go, The complete project and files
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
sphinx
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 685

Thank You
-Given: 482
-Receive: 180



« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2020, 09:59:46 21:59 »

I dloaded your fles and i was wondering, should planes go right to the edge. Will that not cause any issues when they cut the boards with eventual shorts ?
Logged

the more you learn, the lesser you get to understand. is it then good know alot but not understand what you know or.......
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2020, 08:11:36 08:11 »

Because Iím so used to doing that, because I use my CNC machine to make the one off boards and but the outside edge. Iíd thought Iíd have these boards made to make them look nice.

I will add a keep out layer around the edge and rebuild the polygons as Iím still tweaking and playing around with it, has I. In no rush.

Iíve now removed the other 2 layers that are not needed.
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
sphinx
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 685

Thank You
-Given: 482
-Receive: 180



« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2020, 01:18:25 01:18 »

just curious are lm723 and ua723 the same ic. if they are same then it looks like they are still available ju looked at mouser and alot cheaper
Logged

the more you learn, the lesser you get to understand. is it then good know alot but not understand what you know or.......
sadman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 568

Thank You
-Given: 1478
-Receive: 1999



« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2020, 03:44:50 03:44 »

just curious are lm723 and ua723 the same ic. if they are same then it looks like they are still available ju looked at mouser and alot cheaper

yes both are same ua723 made by Texas instrument have lot of improvement (like internal voltage ref is temp compensated)  to old variant LM723 data sheet can be found on Texas instrument web page they have also added LDO capabilities in 2018 so it is much better then the LM723 and good news is that it will continue in there production line.

sadman
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 06:46:43 06:46 by sadman » Logged
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2020, 09:39:53 21:39 »

Just an little update on project, I've had the boards made and they look good quality only took less than 5 days to arrive from the date of the order.

I've built one board up and been testing it from a 24V PSU, A long the way there was on little error with one transistor foot print was incorrect, Which I checked and checked but this one must have slipped through the net. We live and learn. Not that it was to much trouble I just turned it around.

I've also be working on the front end on the digital part. I've attached a couple of photo's just to show if anyone is interested in following.

The code is almost completed, Just awaiting some more DAC's to arrive as I've only one at the moment but I can use this to get the voltage control working then swap to the current control. I've done it so that you cna use both pots and keypad to set the output voltage and current.

Brief description on how it work,
It use a 16way key pad to set the voltage on Channel 1 you press the * key once, Press it again and you move to channel 2 and a third press it aborts the input but outputs remain the same, This is the same for current but press # instead.
Once you have selected the channel, The voltage reading starts to flash then you can enter the voltage required and you can see the keypress your entering, once set this displays the set voltage along with the set current at the bottom as you can see.

I've got to work out the math's so when you enter 5.00v on the keypad the output voltage is matched the same.(this is on my working list).

Both channels will be isolated from each other and I shall be using    an SI8600 Chip(I2C isolator )so that I can use one display and controller for both.

More will follow soon and including a video of the digital part working.
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Old_but_Alive
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 306

Thank You
-Given: 532
-Receive: 110


« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2020, 07:44:49 07:44 »

I love rotary encoders for this type of application, if you choose the ones with  a press switch built in, then its easy to move between modes.

A good design though, and thanks for sharing
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 07:51:51 07:51 by Old_but_Alive » Logged

I fought Ohm's Law ...  and the law won
I only use Mosfets because I have a Bipolar mental disorder :-)
metal
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2406

Thank You
-Given: 842
-Receive: 651


Top Topic Starter


« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2020, 09:53:42 09:53 »

I agree with old_but_Alive, rotary encoder is much better than keypads for similar apps.
Logged
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2020, 10:21:46 10:21 »

The rotary encoder may be the way to go as at the moment Iím having a nightmare trying to get the correct values to set the output voltage and do away with the pots and key pad, this way I may be able to use an existing power supply case I got  Grin
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Sideshow Bob
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 799

Thank You
-Given: 212
-Receive: 773



« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2020, 11:47:30 11:47 »

The rotary encoder may be the way to go as at the moment Iím having a nightmare trying to get the correct values to set the output voltage and do away with the pots and key pad, this way I may be able to use an existing power supply case I got  Grin
What will be your DAC choice for this build
Logged

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
Old_but_Alive
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 306

Thank You
-Given: 532
-Receive: 110


« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2020, 01:02:18 13:02 »

I like the mcrochip I2C chips, very easy to use

MCP4728  Quad 12 bit - I have used this before, lovely device

MCP47CMB22  Dual 12bit

internal ref, whats not to like
Logged

I fought Ohm's Law ...  and the law won
I only use Mosfets because I have a Bipolar mental disorder :-)
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2020, 01:04:29 13:04 »

At the moment itís an MCP4725 which Iím just trying but may use an 16bit dac but this depends if the 12bit dac does satisfactory, I think itís just to the way Iím entering the keypad value, I will see if I can get to the bottom of it once I get a bit more time as it was late last night
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Sideshow Bob
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 799

Thank You
-Given: 212
-Receive: 773



« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2020, 01:34:03 13:34 »

At the moment itís an MCP4725 which Iím just trying but may use an 16bit dac but this depends if the 12bit dac does satisfactory, I think itís just to the way Iím entering the keypad value, I will see if I can get to the bottom of it once I get a bit more time as it was late last night
Nah I do not think you need 16 bit. Whit a resolution of say 0.05 volt you will need 480 steps in the 0-24 volt range. A 0.01 resolution will require 2400 steps. I would say going lower than 0.01 volt would not be very practical nor needed
Logged

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
metal
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2406

Thank You
-Given: 842
-Receive: 651


Top Topic Starter


« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2020, 01:54:02 13:54 »

those DAC/ADC chips from microchip are not suitable for such applications. I remember Dave Jones tried to do a similar project which ended a complete *** up few years back. Since then I am always wondering how vendors do it Cheesy
Logged
Sideshow Bob
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 799

Thank You
-Given: 212
-Receive: 773



« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2020, 02:11:16 14:11 »

those DAC/ADC chips from microchip are not suitable for such applications. I remember Dave Jones tried to do a similar project which ended a complete *** up few years back. Since then I am always wondering how vendors do it Cheesy
Do you remember why? Also I am asuming we are talking about the Dave Jones from EEV blog Wink Not the footballer
Logged

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
Old_but_Alive
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 306

Thank You
-Given: 532
-Receive: 110


« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2020, 02:52:26 14:52 »

please give some data on the mcrochip products, they worked for me a treat
Logged

I fought Ohm's Law ...  and the law won
I only use Mosfets because I have a Bipolar mental disorder :-)
sadman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 568

Thank You
-Given: 1478
-Receive: 1999



« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2020, 04:00:46 16:00 »

why not use PWM instead of DAC PWM work fine using capture compare module and you can get easily resolution of 0.05

sadman
Logged
metal
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2406

Thank You
-Given: 842
-Receive: 651


Top Topic Starter


« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2020, 04:17:29 16:17 »

Do you remember why? Also I am asuming we are talking about the Dave Jones from EEV blog Wink Not the footballer

yea, Dave Jones - the aussie clown - I am not sure if I remember correctly, but it was sth related to the stability of the readings, ppm issues may be, and he said I should have used higher quality/resolution chips to overcome last digit instability and bad resolution. If I remember correctly, he should have used 16-bits stuff, and ignore the last bit to get real good readings. I really wanted that project to work, because I always wanted to do such power supplies, but as we all know, Dave turned out to be an oscilloscope commercial reviewer and a clown Cheesy

please give some data on the mcrochip products, they worked for me a treat

Since I don't remember much, we have to look the videos up, watch them and then conclude again Smiley
Also, if they worked a treat for you, enlighten us please, sure your knowledge will shine here
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 04:19:56 16:19 by metal » Logged
metal
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2406

Thank You
-Given: 842
-Receive: 651


Top Topic Starter


« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2020, 07:12:25 19:12 »

Just an little update on project, I've had the boards made and they look good quality only took less than 5 days to arrive from the date of the order.

I've built one board up and been testing it from a 24V PSU, A long the way there was on little error with one transistor foot print was incorrect, Which I checked and checked but this one must have slipped through the net. We live and learn. Not that it was to much trouble I just turned it around.

I've also be working on the front end on the digital part. I've attached a couple of photo's just to show if anyone is interested in following.

The code is almost completed, Just awaiting some more DAC's to arrive as I've only one at the moment but I can use this to get the voltage control working then swap to the current control. I've done it so that you cna use both pots and keypad to set the output voltage and current.

Brief description on how it work,
It use a 16way key pad to set the voltage on Channel 1 you press the * key once, Press it again and you move to channel 2 and a third press it aborts the input but outputs remain the same, This is the same for current but press # instead.
Once you have selected the channel, The voltage reading starts to flash then you can enter the voltage required and you can see the keypress your entering, once set this displays the set voltage along with the set current at the bottom as you can see.

I've got to work out the math's so when you enter 5.00v on the keypad the output voltage is matched the same.(this is on my working list).

Both channels will be isolated from each other and I shall be using    an SI8600 Chip(I2C isolator )so that I can use one display and controller for both.

More will follow soon and including a video of the digital part working.

wizpic, sure you are using proton GLCD lib, am I right? if so, what do you use for the fonts?
Logged
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2020, 07:41:49 19:41 »

wizpic, sure you are using proton GLCD lib, am I right? if so, what do you use for the fonts?
No Shoot me down  Cheesy, at the moment an Arduino Mega256 but may cut it down to a mini or uno providing I've got enough pins lol.

Now I'm looking into rotary encoder to set the Dac, Just looking for examples at the moment(this is the best way i learn) I know in the past when I've used an encoder I found that it misses steps and this one of the reason I chose the keypad and pots, But do like the idea of a encoder on the front end with a few buttons as memory buttons to set a set voltage, Looking at a more reliable solution, I have found a circuit that should improve the signal and make it cleaner shown in the image below.

Does any one have a working example or more reliable method , Just adjusting the voltage on the dac using an encoder ?
 
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
metal
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2406

Thank You
-Given: 842
-Receive: 651


Top Topic Starter


« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2020, 09:41:19 21:41 »

 Undecided  Undecided  Undecided  Huh  Huh  Huh

I hate arduino so much, anyway, for the sake of good old days, here is mine, it doesn't miss dents, and it worked like a charm in Oct 2009! Nothing is connected to the pins of the rotary encoder other than the MCU pins and their internal pullups. The trick was to use the timer interrupt as a debounce method to overcome the bounces from mechanical contacts. You can guess the frequency by looking at the timer register values.

I attached the code adapted for WinAVR, IAR and cvAVR, you can tell when looking at the code. you are on your own to tweak the code for your arduino, but if you manage to make it work, it will be real good for your project. The QUADRATURE is to support a different rotary encoder so I don't remember which line in the directives should work for yours.
Logged
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2020, 09:50:43 21:50 »

Thanks, I shall have a look at your code, I've been doing some playing around, I get the encoder code working nicely showing the increments of on on the serial monitor,

I then try to add my ADS1115 and MCP4725 and everything just gets screwed up and it no longer increments, the same if I only add the MCP4725 alone,  I shall carry on playing for a bit more before bedtime

It's all fun in learning and playing around 
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Old_but_Alive
Senior Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 306

Thank You
-Given: 532
-Receive: 110


« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2020, 06:27:55 06:27 »


I have bought rotary encoders from Aliexpress. make sure its the 5 pin version, so it has the switch in addition to the rotary part



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32947217301.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.3e294e99ZIhsSM&algo_pvid=3fc6ce5a-eb91-495e-96ab-f43336b83354&algo_expid=3fc6ce5a-eb91-495e-96ab-f43336b83354-0&btsid=0b0a187b16055942410426434e15b4&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001207874956.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.3e294e99ZIhsSM&algo_pvid=3fc6ce5a-eb91-495e-96ab-f43336b83354&algo_expid=3fc6ce5a-eb91-495e-96ab-f43336b83354-2&btsid=0b0a187b16055942410426434e15b4&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
Logged

I fought Ohm's Law ...  and the law won
I only use Mosfets because I have a Bipolar mental disorder :-)
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2020, 10:06:28 22:06 »

I've been working on this again and now have chosen to go with 1 or2 rotary encoders(not decided yet.), I can set the Dac output with it and had it hooked up to my PSU board and the results are great so far.

To get some ideas I've watched the of an over view on the Siglent SPD3303C power supply which uses a single rotary encoder and 3 buttons to set the output voltages and the amps on both channels along with a fine button.

Then another 4 buttons, 2 Buttons select channel 1 or 2, Then the other 2 Turn the output on/off, See pic below

I can add/worry about the memory buttons later once everything else is working. (if needed)

I like the way this is set up and works plus it looks easy to use and implement , Now this is where I'm a bit undecided on Method A or Method B.

Method A.
To keep the same the set up as it is in the pic below (keep the foot print and layout small on the front panel) ?

Method B.
To remove the channel1&2 select buttons and have 1 rotary encoder with 3 buttons , one to select  between the voltage and amps setting along with the 3rd for the fine settings for each channel ?

This is where I'd like some input, what would you do or prefer Method A or Method B  ?
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Sideshow Bob
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 799

Thank You
-Given: 212
-Receive: 773



« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2020, 10:39:00 22:39 »

How will you attack the digital current/voltage settings?
Logged

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2020, 08:10:03 08:10 »

How will you attack the digital current/voltage settings?

I shall be using 4 times MCP4725 as there easier to solder, then a TCP9548 to multiplex them and then using isolated 5v supply for the dacís and will be using an SI8600 for the I2C bus
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 08:12:11 08:12 by Wizpic » Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2020, 08:11:59 20:11 »

Just thought I'd post an update on my on going progress has it's taking longer than I thought to sort out the digital control side of things after people suggested using an rotary encoder.
I've now changed from an Arduino Mega 2560 to now using an ESP32 as the mega was getting slower, The only draw back is limited pins but for the LED'S for visual indication to let you know which and what channels you are adjusting, So now looking at an PCF8574 for those led's.

Has it stands at the moment, The actual PSU board and been finished and tested (only one channel so far), All good so far. The controller is almost there so far it has 9 buttons one rotary encoder. These buttons select between channels for setting current and voltage settings 4 in total for these, 2 Buttons to output's on/off, the button on the encoder is for selecting fine/coarse adjustments The other 2 are spare at the moment(but need to add a calibration function.

So far I'm using 2 x MCP4822 (12 bit Dac's), Digital SPI & I2C isolators, 2 MCP3426 (16 Bit ADC'S) then an PCF8574 port expander.

I have chosen to go back to the SPI 128*64 GLCD'S (but will be looking at the TFT'S displays, But want to get it working first).

I've taken all the voltages readings  for setting the voltage and current and implemented this into my code, So over the next few days I will be hooking it up and controlling one channel first to see how it goes.

Here are some photo's, Sorry about the rats nest as I want to get is nearly completed and tested before I design the PCB for it which I'm doing as I go along making connections. I know I need to get of the bred board as this will interfere with the readings.

One of the things I need to look at is setting the voltage on the PSU goes to 6.531 volts and the DAC can only go to 4.095 volts but I can add an op-amp to double the voltage but will need a bit of some thought as I still would like to use the 4095 steps or close as possible to maximize the full range of it. Ideas welcome lol
 
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Sideshow Bob
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 799

Thank You
-Given: 212
-Receive: 773



« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2020, 10:26:14 10:26 »

Are you using the voltage DAC as reference for LM723C?
Logged

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2020, 11:07:42 11:07 »

Are you using the voltage DAC as reference for LM723C?

Yeah Iíve tested it on adjusting the voltage but only up to 5v from the dac and output of power supply went to about 23 volts as I need to boost the dac voltage to get the full output voltage working really well better than I thought, at the end of the day this controller should be able to be added to any other power supply as the front end
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Sideshow Bob
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 799

Thank You
-Given: 212
-Receive: 773



« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2020, 11:59:01 11:59 »

Yeah Iíve tested it on adjusting the voltage but only up to 5v from the dac and output of power supply went to about 23 volts as I need to boost the dac voltage to get the full output voltage working really well better than I thought, at the end of the day this controller should be able to be added to any other power supply as the front end
Take a look my conceptual power supply. The one you are building will be somewhat similar. In order to compensate for a slightly lower voltage reference you can increase the loop gain slightly (R1,R2) to give the voltage range you want
Logged

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2020, 01:03:56 13:03 »

The only trouble with that I see, Is there is no current limit, The K7200 power supply is based on a good design old hat I know but works very well.
From What I can remember from initial testing controlling it from this controller is the little amount you can adjust the voltage. I have an old triple power supply that one channel failed and the second one is now playing up, Hence why I went back to the K7200 design as I know how to repair it if it breaks, I found a few schematics but nothing is close to the one I have that's failed, I did start to reverse engineer the PCB but thought it was to much hassle in the end,  I will be using everything including the case and power transformer from it.

I've been looking into increasing the voltage from the DAC using an op-amp and set the maximum voltage from the DAC to 3.5 and with the op-amp it will double it. This will a dual power supply once finished. It's been a lot of hard work in writing the software but also its been a load of fun and time passing in doing it. Hopefully over the next couple of day I will be hooking up the controller to the power supply :-)   
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2020, 02:51:35 14:51 »

I could not wait any longer and while the wife is at work I decided to hook it up now  Grin, So I can continue in getting the software side of things done.

I must say I'm really pleased with the result it works really well and over the moon with it, I can increment in 10Mv steps through to 1 volt steps also I hooked up the current control and this also works perfectly so all in all I'm making great progress  and can't wait to get to the PCB design for it.
Here is  a picture where you can see I set the output voltage to 10.00V and you can see on LCD1 is reading 10 volt, LCD2 slightly out has this is just hooked up to the same channel.
 
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Sideshow Bob
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 799

Thank You
-Given: 212
-Receive: 773



« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2020, 11:07:25 11:07 »

The only trouble with that I see, Is there is no current limit, The K7200 power supply is based on a good design old hat I know but works very well.
From What I can remember from initial testing controlling it from this controller is the little amount you can adjust the voltage. I have an old triple power supply that one channel failed and the second one is now playing up, Hence why I went back to the K7200 design as I know how to repair it if it breaks, I found a few schematics but nothing is close to the one I have that's failed, I did start to reverse engineer the PCB but thought it was to much hassle in the end,  I will be using everything including the case and power transformer from it.

I've been looking into increasing the voltage from the DAC using an op-amp and set the maximum voltage from the DAC to 3.5 and with the op-amp it will double it. This will a dual power supply once finished. It's been a lot of hard work in writing the software but also its been a load of fun and time passing in doing it. Hopefully over the next couple of day I will be hooking up the controller to the power supply :-)   
I think you missed my point. The conceptual drawing was just to show the principal. That is also used in your power supply regarding voltage regulation.  The loop gain in you circuit is as far as I can see decided by the ratio of R5 and R23 as in a non inverting opamp amplifier setup. Just increase R5 and your loop gain will increase. No need to add any extra opamp
Logged

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2020, 02:04:59 14:04 »

Sorry sideshow bob I see what you mean now and get it I shall look into this wifey back today and sheís the boss  Grin
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Jagi
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 27

Thank You
-Given: 26
-Receive: 11


« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2020, 05:04:51 17:04 »

To get some ideas I've watched the of an over view on the Siglent SPD3303C power supply which uses a single rotary encoder and 3 buttons to set the output voltages and the amps on both channels along with a fine button.

This is where I'd like some input, what would you do or prefer Method A or Method B  ?

You have some serious professional grade equipment at your disposal. I wish I had them (outside work). Coming to the point, of what is a better method, it all depends on how much hardware or software you are going to burden. Using multiple switches for selection is easy in software (a 4x4 matrix keypad is easy to interface), but then the cost of hardware is the burden.
If you use a rotary encoder with a switch in the center for selection, then the hardware is less, but then doing the software to recognize the rotary encoder interaction increases and making the appropriate menu is another task.
From my understanding of 20+ years in the electronics field, you could use a combination of both (similar to what has been done by SIGLENT).
Logged
Sideshow Bob
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 799

Thank You
-Given: 212
-Receive: 773



« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2020, 05:10:19 17:10 »

Sorry sideshow bob I see what you mean now and get it I shall look into this wifey back today and sheís the boss  Grin
If you select a gain equal to say 8 you will be able to get (in theory that said) an output of 8*4.096 volt and each ADC bit will be worth 8mV of output voltage. If you use say a gain of ten. You will have each ADC bit be worth 10mV. This will of course make your output voltage calculation very simple. In this case you will not be able to use the full ADC range but as I see it it does not matter much for this application. Resistors do have tolerance. But you can add say a 100 ohm multiturn pot for calibration purpose
Logged

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2021, 09:14:54 09:14 »

If you select a gain equal to say 8 you will be able to get (in theory that said) an output of 8*4.096 volt and each ADC bit will be worth 8mV of output voltage. If you use say a gain of ten. You will have each ADC bit be worth 10mV. This will of course make your output voltage calculation very simple. In this case you will not be able to use the full ADC range but as I see it it does not matter much for this application. Resistors do have tolerance. But you can add say a 100 ohm multiturn pot for calibration purpose
I've been looking into this and I've got to look into a bit more and study the data sheet of the LM723 for setting the value of the resistors to get it to work from 0-5V input onto R20.

But I may see a little problem, With the pot's wired up and set to zero volts going into R20 is 1.041volts and with it set to max I get 6.473 volts so that an operating window of 0 to 5.43 volts.
I had a working design in proteus and changed the value of R5 to 8K2 and I could get the full range of 0-30V output by supplying R20 with 0-5V input but you still need to start off at 1.041 volts on the input of R20 to start the output moving from 0 volt(anything before 1.041 volts noting happens on the output voltage) then having the 4.095 volts sat on the input at R20 I still get my 30 volts output but the operating window now is 3.054 volts which to me is less steps ?
I've not tried it in on my current set up, I'd rather get close to the values and get the full range of 0-4.095 volts on the input of R20 rather than start of at 1.041 volts in proteus then carry out the mods on the real board(just saves making a mess on my PCB with having to keep soldering and desoldserng values in/out),
I was going to up load the proteus file but Stupidly I went to renumber the values of components so it would of made it easier to cross refence of the original schematic but something has gone wrong as now I only get 3.85 volt output where as before the whole design was working in proteus, Hopefully I can find what I changed/moved or deleted a wire my mistake and then I can upload for others to have a play with if they wanted and you can see what I'm trying to explain.

When I looked into this sometime ago I could not work it out so it may be just easier to stick with the op-amp to increase the voltage but now you've mentioned about altering the value of R5 I like the challenge now and can't stop thinking about it  Smiley
« Last Edit: January 01, 2021, 09:17:53 09:17 by Wizpic » Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Sideshow Bob
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 799

Thank You
-Given: 212
-Receive: 773



« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2021, 04:26:01 16:26 »

If you could upload a proteus project at least the analog version. Given that you allready have done the job that is, it could fun to tinker with. But that would require that the modell  for the LM723cn is accurate. Do you have any idea regarding this?
I have done some working with the LM723cn but that was over 10 years ago. What I did back then was to build an differential amplifier from a LM324 and place it over the current sense resistor. By varying the gain of this circuit. I could set a very low max current and still use a 0.1 ohm current sense resistor. I did this by putting the current sense pin to ground via a resistor and the current limit pin was fed by the differential amplifier. Also from what I can remember the output voltage could not go below 2 about volt. Is this correct still?
With a 12 bit ADC I would not worry about the output voltage resolution. With a resolution of 50 mV. You will only need 600 steps to get a 0 to 30 output voltage. If you plan to use rotary encoders for voltage settings. Perhaps it could be an idea to use switch to set a corsa or fine sensetivety for the encoders. In coarse mode the voltage could say go up/down in .5 volts step. But in the fine setting it could be 50 mV(as an example)
Edit: Pin numbers refer to metal can package in the picture!!!
« Last Edit: January 01, 2021, 04:36:40 16:36 by Sideshow Bob » Logged

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2021, 05:03:49 17:03 »

Here is a working version of it, The current part does not seem to be able to supply more than 3 amps for some unknown reason in proteus but in real life I get the full 5amps.

the voltage side of things work in proteus as real life but may be slight difference  on the R20 readings compared to real life one, But a least I can play with this to get some where close

EDIT: Yeah on the controller side things I'm using and encoder with the button multiplying between 1,10,50,100 count's (not yet set just may need 2 of them but waiting to get it fully working first before I commit the correct values
« Last Edit: January 01, 2021, 05:07:56 17:07 by Wizpic » Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Sideshow Bob
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 799

Thank You
-Given: 212
-Receive: 773



« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2021, 11:25:40 11:25 »

Here is a working version of it, The current part does not seem to be able to supply more than 3 amps for some unknown reason in proteus but in real life I get the full 5amps.

the voltage side of things work in proteus as real life but may be slight difference  on the R20 readings compared to real life one, But a least I can play with this to get some where close

EDIT: Yeah on the controller side things I'm using and encoder with the button multiplying between 1,10,50,100 count's (not yet set just may need 2 of them but waiting to get it fully working first before I commit the correct values
The more I look at this design. The more I see it kind of need some modernisation. Nothing real big but some deatails here and there. Like using a more modern pass transistor (2n3055). You may get away with using only one. And also perhaps implementing a precision high-side current-sense amplifier. This way you can use a quite low value shunt resistor like 50mOhm. If you can not find a 5 watt 50mOhm resistor use two 100mOhm. And also use a staI also think about doing something to the current limiter system. Replacing it with some opamps. By using a quad tl074 you can replace the 741 opamp
Logged

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2021, 01:02:16 13:02 »

Iíve did some playing around with the R5 changed it to 11k and changed R20 to 430K and I can now Control the voltage from 0.5 to 4.096 volts to get near 32 volts out, I only changed R20 as I had to in proteus so not sure if thatís the correct way with R20.

I left everything as to the original with all the components as I was not sure if the digital control would work so if it did fail I still could use it has is, I intend to control the relay through software so I can remove the op-amp, Iím using a 0.01ihm (20watt)resistor for current sense and changed the 2N3055 to MJ3281A transistor.

Now that the digital controller is working better than expected I will update schematics and remove the components not needed
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Sideshow Bob
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 799

Thank You
-Given: 212
-Receive: 773



« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2021, 02:33:38 14:33 »

I do not think R20 is needed at all. As the input on the LM723 should be high impedance like an opamp anyway. But place the DAC close to the regulator.

Posted on: January 03, 2021, 01:35:30 13:35 - Automerged

Funny now i see why you need some voltage input on the R20 in order to get something out at all. It uses pin 9 as output to controll the power transistor setup. pin 9 is the zener output (see figure in post 44). Normally you use pin 10 (vout) as output. My guess is that is done in order to get 0 volt as output on the power supply. LM723 does not go any lower than about 2 volt
Logged

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2021, 04:23:55 16:23 »

Yeah thatís why they use 2 lm723ís one so that it can be made to go to zero controlling the volts and the second one for current, same again on the input of R28 for zero current I get 0.750 volts which gives a minimum current draw of around 10-15Mamps anything lower than 0.750 the current limit is always active, to obtain 5amps the voltage on R28 is 1.267 volts, I can take it higher to get more than 5amps but my transformers are rated at 6.5amps
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Jagi
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 27

Thank You
-Given: 26
-Receive: 11


« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2021, 02:38:48 14:38 »

Here is a working version of it, The current part does not seem to be able to supply more than 3 amps for some unknown reason in proteus but in real life I get the full 5amps. The voltage side of things work in proteus as real life but may be slight difference  on the R20 readings compared to real life one, But a least I can play with this to get some where close

I did download your project but it seems like you are using an ultra latest version of Proteus and so it fails to open in Proteus 8.9.
Anyway, I did download the K7200 pdf from Vellman's site, and I see they are using a low side current sense. Which is okay, because the control needed is quiet simple. However as Bob noted in his post http://www.sonsivri.to/forum/index.php?topic=68701.msg199357#msg199357, I would concur that using a high side current sense makes more sense for a lab power supply. The difficulty will be finding a current sense amplifier that operates "rail-to-rail" within a moderate DIY budget. LTC makes some pro grade high side current sense amps, which you can check out.
Logged
Sideshow Bob
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 799

Thank You
-Given: 212
-Receive: 773



« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2021, 02:59:28 14:59 »

I did download your project but it seems like you are using an ultra latest version of Proteus and so it fails to open in Proteus 8.9.
Anyway, I did download the K7200 pdf from Vellman's site, and I see they are using a low side current sense. Which is okay, because the control needed is quiet simple. However as Bob noted in his post http://www.sonsivri.to/forum/index.php?topic=68701.msg199357#msg199357, I would concur that using a high side current sense makes more sense for a lab power supply. The difficulty will be finding a current sense amplifier that operates "rail-to-rail" within a moderate DIY budget. LTC makes some pro grade high side current sense amps, which you can check out.
I think INA 193 can do the job. It is quite cheap and can handle up to 80v. It has a wide supply range independent of the input voltage
Logged

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
Jagi
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 27

Thank You
-Given: 26
-Receive: 11


« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2021, 02:16:19 14:16 »

I think INA 193 can do the job. It is quite cheap and can handle up to 80v. It has a wide supply range independent of the input voltage
How about ACS712, we have used it in some of our products. It can sense both AC and DC currents. Comes in SMT 8 pin and it is quiet easy to interface to the micro.
Attached datasheet for ACS712.
Logged
Sideshow Bob
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 799

Thank You
-Given: 212
-Receive: 773



« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2021, 05:13:19 17:13 »

Ok due to covid I have been tinkering some with a power supply What do you think? I have not built it but dit look viable. It pass funtions test but I just got it working. Not done any ripple testing etc.
EDIT: This meant as a response to Wizpic. The design is very like what a discrete 723 could look like. But the current limit function has a much larger span what you find in bare bones LM723 design. The error function is the green LED. As long as output move from the setpoint. The LED will be on. If current limit kicks in or the regulator goes into drop out the LED will will not light
EDIT 2This is only meant as an conceptual design. Please see it as such, not a verifeid project. If you build it will probably work perhaps. Bot how good i do not know at this point. ALSO remember I skipped many things like decoupling capacitors etc
EDIT 3: I would like to swap out the instrument amplifier (current sense) with a INA193/196. But I did not have any spice modell for it in Proteus. The parts are also select from what I could find in proteus and at the same time kind what you easy can find in stores. And at the same time cheap
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 08:14:26 20:14 by Sideshow Bob » Logged

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2021, 06:32:42 06:32 »

Iíve down loaded the first version but not tried it, Iíll down load the latest version and should be able to have a play with it the weekend, has the gaffer is off this week and not been able to get I to workshop to play, I keep telling her I wear the trousers in this relationship once sheís chosen the colour  Cheesy

It will be interesting to have a look and play around with it, proteus is good but sometimes it works slightly different in the real world I find, but most of the time it performs better in the real world than it does in proteus.

Iíll keep you posted might even build it up in real time,

is it still based around this one with the same values and similar wiring .
The only reason I ask I may be able to use the PCBís I have spare and just hard wire the op-Amps into the Baird as Iíve not opened the file yet to have a look at it
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Sideshow Bob
Cracking Team
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 799

Thank You
-Given: 212
-Receive: 773



« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2021, 01:11:50 13:11 »

Iíve down loaded the first version but not tried it, Iíll down load the latest version and should be able to have a play with it the weekend, has the gaffer is off this week and not been able to get I to workshop to play, I keep telling her I wear the trousers in this relationship once sheís chosen the colour  Cheesy

It will be interesting to have a look and play around with it, proteus is good but sometimes it works slightly different in the real world I find, but most of the time it performs better in the real world than it does in proteus.

Iíll keep you posted might even build it up in real time,

is it still based around this one with the same values and similar wiring .
The only reason I ask I may be able to use the PCBís I have spare and just hard wire the op-Amps into the Baird as Iíve not opened the file yet to have a look at it

I have made a new version. Changed a few things to the better. And cleaned up the schematic and also used real life resistor values for the circuit. The design is doable in real life I will think. The LT074 can handle up to 40 volt (absolute max is 42 volt). You may be able to take out the LM723 from your circuit and test I think. But note I use a high side current sense resistor. In proteus I can with out any problem have a current equal to 5A with a single 2N3055. I think you said in your proteus design you could only get about 4 volt with 2 2n3055. It can go down very low in voltage, less than 0.3 volt with some current draw at least.
AGAIN PLEASE NOTE: This is a CONCEPTUAL design. There is lot of details where I live in an ideal circuit world. not a real world
Logged

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
Wizpic
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166

Thank You
-Given: 453
-Receive: 403



« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2021, 12:51:04 12:51 »

Slideshow Bob,
I've not forgot about having a look or play with your new version of the PSU you done, Only been really busy at work (which is good thing under the current circumstances) plus ideally I want to get this version fully up and working. I'm still working on the control software and hardware side of things. Only I've now changed the displays to 3.2" TFT'S screens which is working loads faster than the other screens I was using. Plus much better looking.

I've also added 2 PCF8574's for the buttons and LED indicators to show what's selected and active.

I'm now happy to start the PCB design for the controller, Tidying up the code and adding the rest of the calibration routines can be done at the later stage or while I'm waiting the for the PCB'S to come.
Logged

When you think, "I can't do anymore. I need a break," that is the time to challenge yourself to keep going another five minutes. Those who persevere for even an extra five minutes will win in life..
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]
Print
Jump to:  


DISCLAIMER
WE DONT HOST ANY ILLEGAL FILES ON THE SERVER
USE CONTACT US TO REPORT ILLEGAL FILES
ADMINISTRATORS CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR USERS POSTS AND LINKS

... Copyright © 2003-2999 Sonsivri.to ...
Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC | HarzeM Dilber MC