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September 23, 2018, 05:23:36 05:23


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Author Topic: If your're thinking of buying a PicKit3/4 for 18F27K42, don't.  (Read 2083 times)
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towlerg
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« on: July 07, 2018, 07:35:25 07:35 »

Well not unless you need it now.

A guy on the Great Cow Basic development team has rewitten the standalone PC apps for PicKit2 and PicKit3 which will now allow programming of 18F27K42 and others (see attached list).

This means Ta da, you can shitcan Microchips java blather Mplabx and IPE, good riddance.

The software is not released yet but you can get a copy on the GCB board. Unfortunately the trial release has a 25 second delay before frogramming, not quite sure why. Maybe its to force peeps to upgrade. They are looking for a few quid to get a certificate, so if you think you might use it, send them something.

Btw even with the 25 seconds delay, it's still quicker than IPE!!
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2018, 08:33:28 08:33 »

that looks like a none goer.
user stopped the trial on the 15th May
last post in the topic is
'We are at a decision point - press on with PICKit PLUS or stop the development/give up.'
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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2018, 07:44:12 07:44 »

Well thats weird, I have a trial (albeit with 25 sec delay) that seems to work just fine on 18F26K42.

Posted on: 08-07-2018, 06:37:22 - Automerged

Well thats weird, I have a trial (albeit with 25 sec delay) which I got yesterday, that seems to work just fine on 18F26K42.

I've posted on the GC board a request for an explanation.
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2018, 11:01:26 11:01 »

The problem is motivational, the guy is piss off that he can't raise enough money to certify the Great Cow suite, maybe he has a point. Personally I could care less about certification but I'll still slip the quy a few quid, it's worth it not to be soiled by IPE.

Reading between the lines, he's already paid for the certificate and is looking to get reimbursed.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 11:17:27 11:17 by towlerg » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2018, 06:09:09 18:09 »

So to clarify, the guy is looking for 289 per year for certification (of what or why I still don't know)


Quote from the quy
Quote
We thought 10 per application, there are three, and 23 for all three at once as we have that build fully automated.


I guess I'll stick with IPE for the time being.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 06:11:41 18:11 by towlerg » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2018, 03:25:35 03:25 »

I think he has the Model wrong. there are a few programs I still pay for.
All that earn me money, then some that I support that are free to use.
Like Mp3Tag.exe free to use - but donations welcome. Then there are some have got greedy and want megga bucks UltraEdit is in this class, there are free options that do the same.
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2018, 05:38:12 05:38 »

Quote
I think he has the Model wrong
You said it, he wildly overvalues the value of his product. Now, if IPE didn't support Pickit3 he would make a bucket of money, providing he dropped the price.

Suddenly IPE doesnt seem so bad. I must look at ipecmdboost, maybe that will be a little less shit.


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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2018, 06:47:30 06:47 »

without having the code to play with, just the images he has put up. it looks like he has hacked the standalone pickit2/3 front end.

Mind you I still have all the offical programmers from Microchip. I libarated from company stores, from the Picstart Plus. Pickit 1, Pickit2, Pickit3, MPlab ICD, MPlab ICD2, MPlab ICD3, MPLAB REAL ICE, MPLAB ICE2000, MPLAB ICE4000 and some optional add-on to the REAL ICE.
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2018, 06:52:57 06:52 »

I thought that Microchip released the code for Pickit2 GUI, and I seem to rember sombody else was so annoyed by the code that he rewote it from scratch.

The 23 chap told me that "they" wrote the command line version from scratch.
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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2018, 03:09:20 15:09 »

Very strange topic title.

At first a recent device PIC18F27K42 is officially supported by PICkit3. PICkit4 has a beta support for that particular device as for all others - PICkit4 itself is in beta.

Then I do not see that someone shares the bad experience using PICkit with PIC18F27K42.

All I see that someone wrote his own beta frontend that flashes PIC through PICkit faster than IPE. Then the title is irrelevant, isn't it?

One of the reasons I use branded programmer with its branded software is expected reliability even if they have some weak points like not top speed. A possible unpredictable behavior of somehow better homebrew tool will cost me much more time than time difference between flashes.
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« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2018, 09:47:14 09:47 »

Perhaps I was unclear

Quote
All I see that someone wrote his own beta frontend that flashes PIC through PICkit faster than IPE. Then the title is irrelevant, isn't it?

The guy claims to have added to macros and ammended data file necessary for programming 18F27K42 (amoung a number of previously unsupported devices) on both PicKit2 and PicKit3 using the normal UI. Albeit that the demo software has a 25 second nag, he's modified executable can programme a 18F27K42 on a PicKit2. He also claims to have written the command line version (PK2 and 3 combined) from scratch, but I do not have a copy of this so I'll have to take his word for it.

References to IPE were mine, that method being the only option available for programming 18F27K42 with PickKit3 (and not at all for PicKit2).

Quote
At first a recent device PIC18F27K42 is officially supported by PICkit3
I was not aware of this. Do you mean that PicKit3/18F27K42 is supported by IPE or that a modified version of the original executable and command line is available.

If the former, then the whole point is to get away from that bag of crap. If the latter, where can I get a copy from?



« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 10:01:22 10:01 by towlerg » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2018, 01:07:36 13:07 »

Perhaps I was unclear
<...>
If the former, then the whole point is to get away from that bag of crap

Ok, now I see. We have different initial position regarding PICkits and accompanying software.
 
You consider IPE itself as a crap. Also you do not like PICkit3 due to some reasons. And maybe only PICkit2 is satisfactory because now you have a replacement of IPE that can work with it. And you advise not considering a purchase of up-to-date supported programmer PICkit3, but instead to use good-old PICkit2 without support from Microchip with front-end without support (at least serious) from homemade-developer.

I can not agree. Maybe I have nothing to compare with but if Microchip programmers did not make its work that they are intended for I'd probably have some (most are not cheap) alternatives and could compare. I have two PICkit2s, several PICkit3s, RealICE, and one PICkit4. Before that (in late 90s) I had some different simple programmers for PICs on RS232(can recall only Ponyprog name) including one I soldered myself. (almost forget - BeeProg, E8A and one that I forgot somewhere on shelves with its name)

As a frontend I use MPLABX at development time to program and debug, IPECMD that I call from a makefile or other custom script and IPE GUI when I got a hex to write or device to read occasionally. All listed are far from ideal but they work. I'd change interface of IPE, but honestly it is easier for me after finding working steps just to use it without emotions (if a balance is possible) than to search for alternatives. Can you recommend ones?

I had encountered some issues with different PICkits. Most of them were due to beta state. Not a surprise that almost all of them are resolved or have some workarounds. Microchip provides me with a tools and I successfully do my job using them. So at least it is not a crap, don't you think?

PICkit3 itself is not slower than PICkit2. But the process of connection, checking for updates for each run (the same for RealICE and PICkit4)... is not a joy of course. That issue has two workarounds though. First, in MPLAB to set a "stay connected" option. (Did not see big, if any, advantage regarding connection speed by clearing "Use latest firmware" option.) Second -  use batch mode for programming by IPECMD.

or that a modified version of the original executable and command line is available.
<...>
If the latter, where can I get a copy from?
Friend of mine some years ago got the official PICkit3 stand alone application and modified it for use with both PICkit2 and PICkit3. He believes that that application is still somewhere on microchip's ftp. The key point - format of .dat file with devices descriptions were the same for both programmers. So besides other modifications the main goal was to program new chips by old PICkit2. I have asked him, the link will be later.

Posted on: August 02, 2018, 08:34:34 20:34 - Automerged

Quote
to get away from that bag of crap
Contrary I can say definitely: if you are doing things with PIC controllers you should own at least PICkit3. Then consider PICkit4 as a second - it costs the same but where works (currently beta) does it better than PICkit3 and finally will be a true replacement. If PICkit has not enough functionality for you then you already knows better what you need. The point is - even if you prefer other tools it is convenient and sometimes important to have access to ecosystem provided by manufacturer. After all they are not so bad as some bloggers (who said eev..?) tends to say for the sake of buzz.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 01:54:07 13:54 by Signal » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2018, 08:27:31 08:27 »

One man's meat is another man's poison.

If you use MplabX then you've already thrown your PicKit2 in the bin, so this thread is meaningless.

But for those who do not and who's only goal is to programme 18F27K42 you do not need to buy a PicKit3/4 and run IPE. Just an alternative, thats all. Surely there is nothing wrong with that? Perhaps I should have titled this thread -

"If you're thinking of buying a PicKit3/4 to programme 18F27K42, there is a way to use your existing PicKit2 with that device".

Quote
Contrary I can say definitely: if you are doing things with PIC controllers you should own at least PICkit3. Then consider PICkit4 as a second - it costs the same but where works (currently beta) does it better than PICkit3 and finally will be a true replacement. If PICkit has not enough functionality for you then you already knows better what you need. The point is - even if you prefer other tools it is convenient and sometimes important to have access to ecosystem provided by manufacturer. After all they are not so bad as some bloggers (who said eev..?) tends to say for the sake of buzz.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean but if I do not wish to use MplabX and a PicKit2 can programme the devices I want use, what harm? I do own a PicKit3 and find nothing about it that is superior to PicKit2 and indeed the quite reverse, why does it download new software for no reason, I only use it with IPE but every now and again, it downloads new firmware.

Quote
sometimes important to have access to ecosystem provided by manufacturer
I guess we fundimentaly disagree about Microchips ability to write PC software, you think they have done an good job, whereas I disagree.  
« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 08:30:51 08:30 by towlerg » Logged

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