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Author Topic: How common is the use of ID chip in laptop chargers  (Read 2636 times)
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Sideshow Bob
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« on: February 17, 2014, 01:25:58 13:25 »

Some manufacturers like Packard Bell and DELL use a ID chip in theirs laptop chargers. If the laptop motherboard fail to identify a correct charger. It will refuse to charge the battery or even not boot up. How common is the use of a ID chip in laptop chargers? Any brand that for sure do not use this setup. I may have to use a laptop in a medical research setup. And hence replace the charger with IEC60601 type power supply. Using only battery power will not be an option in this case.
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tanveerriaz
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2014, 02:59:15 14:59 »

fit Dallas DS 2501 1-wire memory chip in the laptop inside.
or make an adapter using an old or new laptop power jack and a short length of wire with the male power jack on it. Then, solder the Dallas chip

serch on google for this
like this
http://jack380.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/how-to-solve-the-problem-dell-ac-power-adapter-type-cannot-be-determined/
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zab
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2014, 06:36:25 18:36 »

The information supplied in given link are really informative. but how to and where to find working id code .then programmer to write it on new chip is an other problem.
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6theo4
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2014, 09:04:10 21:04 »

on a case like this when i had to change a charger of a Dell laptop i just removed the chip from the old (burned) charger and soldered it inside the power plug of the laptop so after i could use any charger......trying to copy the old chip to a new one was unsuccesfull because Dell has custom ordered chips.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 09:08:33 21:08 by 6theo4 » Logged
Gallymimu
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2014, 01:27:07 01:27 »

Some manufacturers like Packard Bell and DELL use a ID chip in theirs laptop chargers. If the laptop motherboard fail to identify a correct charger. It will refuse to charge the battery or even not boot up. How common is the use of a ID chip in laptop chargers? Any brand that for sure do not use this setup. I may have to use a laptop in a medical research setup. And hence replace the charger with IEC60601 type power supply. Using only battery power will not be an option in this case.

Did you consider using a stock charger with a medical isolation transformer?  Would that be an option?

Dell or other large manufacturers may actually have medical grade power supplies.  I am sure it is a common need.
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Sideshow Bob
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2014, 12:05:36 12:05 »

Thank you all for your help. But it seams that you may have misunderstood my question slightly. My problem is not that I have to use a DELL that incorperate an ID chip. I can use almost any up to date laptop in this setup. So I was more looking for a brand that do use the ID chip in charger solution.
Did you consider using a stock charger with a medical isolation transformer?  Would that be an option?

Dell or other large manufacturers may actually have medical grade power supplies.  I am sure it is a common need.
Yes that is correct that by using a  medical isolation transformer. The system could be complient with IEC60601. However this setup will be operated by non technical staff. It has been a probem for me before that the isolation transformer has been missing in action after some time. And the system will then be used without the latter transformer. After all the system is still function.


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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2014, 12:51:13 12:51 »

My HP laptop power pack is as dumb as a brick, but it's also a few years old so I don't know if things have changed...

You can likely find out what models don't have 'protection' pretty easy by simply looking at Ebay and doing a search for said laptop model replacement power pack...  If you get 1001 hits for $5 - $15 Chinese power supplies chances are real good it's not protected, but if you only get hits for high dollar OEM then chances are it's protected and/or has a proprietary connector...
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2014, 04:01:55 04:01 »

Is it possible to use EEPROM emulator circuit istead of old  dallas IC for charger? Secondly is it possible to capture 1wire data and transfer it to emulator circuit to do the trick?
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solutions
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2014, 04:25:49 04:25 »

Yes that is correct that by using a  medical isolation transformer. The system could be complient with IEC60601. However this setup will be operated by non technical staff. It has been a probem for me before that the isolation transformer has been missing in action after some time. And the system will then be used without the latter transformer. After all the system is still function.

There's a very simple solution to keeping the isolation transformer and power supply together:

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Sideshow Bob
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2014, 01:07:00 13:07 »

There's a very simple solution to keeping the isolation transformer and power supply together:


I like to think out the box Grin
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solutions
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2014, 10:14:40 22:14 »

pussy...

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Gallymimu
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2014, 10:53:15 22:53 »

Thank you all for your help. But it seams that you may have misunderstood my question slightly. My problem is not that I have to use a DELL that incorperate an ID chip. I can use almost any up to date laptop in this setup. So I was more looking for a brand that do use the ID chip in charger solution.Yes that is correct that by using a  medical isolation transformer. The system could be complient with IEC60601. However this setup will be operated by non technical staff. It has been a probem for me before that the isolation transformer has been missing in action after some time. And the system will then be used without the latter transformer. After all the system is still function.




I'm with Solutions,  I'd expect you wouldn't be able to get FDA approval with a setup that allows the user to bypass the isolation transformer.  It would have to be in a box, AND the power connector probably can't be removable from the laptop (for fear of finding a compatible one that isn't compliant lying around).

medical is lucrative but a total PIA!
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Sideshow Bob
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« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2014, 11:59:04 11:59 »

The solution I have used in comercial applications. Is to build a strong galvanic isolation section. In the part that are meant for outside connection to say PC/laptop. As long as the equipment connected to the isolated port have proper comercial approval like CE, or UL it is considered ok. Then it will be up to the user to install proper safety measures. Like using a medical isolation transformer as one example. If the PC/laptop is to be placed inside the area that is defined as "patient environment"   
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2014, 07:25:24 07:25 »

Keeping aside the working principle of the chips which match the power supplies with the host, we now get a pileup of compatible replacement power supplies (Not from original manufacturer) in the market which easily match with the given laptop. Its rightly said that rules are made to be broken.
Once it was a similar scenario when every one was searching for an replacement of an IR remote of some equipment. But we get almost any remote relacement for a throw away price. May be the same day will be soon awaited for these ID chip enabled power supplies too.
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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2014, 04:26:23 16:26 »

Unfortunately, using authentication devices in battery packs and AC adapters has become common practice.  For example, all the dell laptops I've used since around 2006 have AC adapters that communicate with the  laptop and complain if it doesn't find the right ID and power rating codes.  It will either refuse to charge the battery or run the laptop in low power mode (with degraded performance). 

There are also bugs (or intentional design) in the dell batteries such that they will suddenly refuse to charge.  I've had this happen with battery between 1 and 3 years old.  I had a similar experience with toshiba tecras (750 and 780 models from the late 1990s) which is one of the reasons I stopped buying toshiba laptops. 
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