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Author Topic: I need your advice, i need a war machine for 2000euros max  (Read 3784 times)
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TucoRamirez
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« on: October 11, 2013, 10:05:31 22:05 »

i'm accostumed to buy always cheapo and use a laptop from my lab to work and do just chat with my creepy crappy netbook

but now one of my project leaders told me ' fait toi plaisir ' and buy a powerful machine , the max $$$ to spend is 2000euros and i 'm very confused because it will be my first 'ferrari like' machine and i have no criteria to pick one at that level ... i mean i heard about SSD disks, weight, battery, screen , trackpad, and it begin to be a very big mess...

So could you help me to pick one??


I was thinking on lenovo as long as i can customize a lot via web before buy,   hp we have acces to a retail vendor and i think customisations are allowed at a certain level

but, anyway i'm very confused !!


thanks in advance guys!!
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solutions
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2013, 10:53:40 22:53 »

I drool over the Alienware gamer machines stuff - should do for LTSPICE quite nicely

I'm using a Lenovo right now - complete crap. Cursor randomly jumps to another place on the screen
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Bobbla
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2013, 12:18:04 00:18 »

Not sure about what your needs are, but you should try to look in to failure rates of the different manufacturers and their support.

I personally have a 3+ year old laptop which works like a charm and was not to expensive either. (i5-520M,1080p,HD5650,4GB,320GB/7200rpm(edit: compal based))

But I would recommend you get a high resolution screen(min. FullHD), Intel CPU(Haswell), 8GB or more RAM and a SSD. I don't really know what you are going to use the laptop for, so I don't know if you will need a dedicated graphics card. I do suggest you look in to DELL because of their support deals(I've had friends with DELL that have had their laptops fixed the day after it failed, good stuff). Also, most laptops come with a lot of bloatware, so go find guides on the internet on how to remove that shit(you won't regret).

That said, you DON'T need bloated gaming laptops. (***ing abominations!!)
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Parmin
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2013, 12:55:42 00:55 »

I recently bought a Samsung series 5 - then found out that they have difficulties to work with Linux..
Sh!t
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calabazas
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2013, 04:40:09 04:40 »

Here is specification list for you: (I'm using one similar. Reliable)
- Alienware 18x
- CPU Intel i7-4930MX (overclocked)
- 32GB 2000+ MHz
- SSD 480GB x 3pcs, under RAID0
- Graphics - anything (for CAD), dual GFX (for gamer)

Be warned, it's a heavy laptop. Only the impatient speed-hungry type will not mind carrying it around or travel.
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TucoRamirez
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2013, 09:04:32 09:04 »

Bobbla:  i need this machine to do any kind of electronic project:  i mean from running cadence virtuoso to runing matlab proteus or android sdk eclipse without making the machine sweat ...

right now i'm using an Elitebook 8570w with corei7 and 8GB of ram and i'm quite happy.  But i repeat the budget is not from my pocket so i can ask for a custom machine for 2000E max, so, i agree with calabazas, SDD  for stuff running anytime in parallel is good and safe (cuz i have usually 5 or 6 sotfwares running all the time and working in terms of priority)   and in terms of graphics, nothing in special i'll never edit any porn amateur video  :p  just classical electronics CAD a little bit of openGL and sometimes not too much complex stuff on sketchup.

Calabazas:  what's the battery life of tha machine you describe?

Parmin:  Oh !  and how many bucks it cost?
Solutions:  Arf!!  cursor from trackpad or it's going crazy even with your usb mouse???
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solutions
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« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2013, 09:46:47 09:46 »

http://www.techulator.com/resources/4845-cursor-jumping-laptops-with-touchpad.aspx
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calabazas
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« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2013, 03:40:46 15:40 »

Calabazas:  what's the battery life of tha machine you describe?

Alienware 18x comes with big battery for gamer. Really handy for CAD since no need of fancy 3D and use basic GFX only. System allows easy switching between GFX options with a reboot. I normally get 5~8 hours. SSD saves power too. Having a spare battery pack would be ideal but I have not encountered the need of it yet.
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Bobbla
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« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2013, 03:49:32 15:49 »

Bobbla:  i need this machine to do any kind of electronic project:  i mean from running cadence virtuoso to runing matlab proteus or android sdk eclipse without making the machine sweat ...

Sounds like stuff I do on my 3 year old laptop without a problem..

right now i'm using an Elitebook 8570w with corei7 and 8GB of ram and i'm quite happy.  But i repeat the budget is not from my pocket so i can ask for a custom machine for 2000E max

So let me see, your happy with what you've got.. but since your not paying you'll use their money on something you don't need?? I mean come on! Thats wasteful, ask for a rain check. I mean, what if your current/new laptop fails? Will you get another new 2k laptop(edit: guarantees and stuff yes yes.. but still!)? This seems like a wasteful action..  Sad

But in case you do buy something, get a computer with good service and support deals. If something fails, you don't want your work to be in some mail/service limbo.. (before you get to know IF your work is gone or how long it will take before you get it back) of course if you do regular backups its not that bad, but you still have to get a new computer, clean it and install new software which takes time = money.
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TucoRamirez
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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2013, 05:06:55 17:06 »

i agree 100% with you but  is NOT MY MONEY !!!   and service/support is in the lab Cheesy 

Yes i know i'm asking how to be wastefull but if i dont spend that money it will vanish and nobody will have acces to it (it will return to the France national budget ^^ -i suppose-  like any amount of general budget unused at the end of a period)   

BTW the machine elitebook i refer is not even my machine , is a machine of the lab too!!  my machine is a poor mans netbook Asus  that lags as hell and i only use sometimes when i travel to do simple documents and watch movies in the train Cheesy... 

So, i would like to have a confortable fuctard machine to do fuctard stuff anywhere  ... and this time for the first time is for free Cheesy


so, Bobbla, i feel weird too, and that's why i ask for advice here.  It's like the street bum having a 1000$ coupon at a supermarket ... and he have the right of buying one bottle of alcohol... so he will be forced to buy a goldenwhiteblue ribbon one ^^ even if he will waste as an uneducated alcoholic ^^
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 05:09:18 17:09 by TucoRamirez » Logged

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calabazas
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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2013, 05:47:05 17:47 »

Enjoy life but not waiting for computer. Computer should wait for human, not the other way around.
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TucoRamirez
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2013, 06:07:23 18:07 »

^^  so i don't ask for anything and i let the money pass ?? ....
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2013, 06:19:47 18:19 »

Hmm,

several years ago i had to order a notebook capable of capturing and analysing (Fast-)Ethernet and Token-Ring-Frames. To make it easy i took a look at the begin of the price list, and voila...
It was a IBM Thinkpad T21 with SXGA+ and so on. The list price in Germany at that time was around 11,000 DM.
Sometimes i still use it, because of its parallel and serial connectors and the remarkable good display and keyboard.

So if You are in the mood to waste money Smiley
i am looking for a tester of this:
http://www.sony.de/product/vaio-s-serie/svs1512z9e

I think there must be matching regional model in Your country too.


Best Regards
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Bobbla
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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2013, 06:30:50 18:30 »

i agree 100% with you but  is NOT MY MONEY !!!   and service/support is in the lab Cheesy 
I doubt we are thinking about the same type of support, I talking your RAM sticks or CPU dies. Then what? does the lab provide you with a new one? tomorrow? doubtful..

Yes i know i'm asking how to be wastefull but if i dont spend that money it will vanish and nobody will have acces to it (it will return to the France national budget ^^ -i suppose-  like any amount of general budget unused at the end of a period) 
How many nurses does one get for 2k? (they don't burn the money, maybe your boss or some politician will use it on cake? thats a lot of cake!)

BTW the machine elitebook i refer is not even my machine , is a machine of the lab too!!  my machine is a poor mans netbook Asus  that lags as hell and i only use sometimes when i travel to do simple documents and watch movies in the train Cheesy... 
I see, but won't the new 2k laptop also be a "lab" machine?

So, i would like to have a confortable fuctard machine to do fuctard stuff anywhere  ... and this time for the first time is for free Cheesy

so, Bobbla, i feel weird too, and that's why i ask for advice here.  It's like the street bum having a 1000$ coupon at a supermarket ... and he have the right of buying one bottle of alcohol... so he will be forced to buy a goldenwhiteblue ribbon one ^^ even if he will waste as an uneducated alcoholic ^^
Not sure how to respond to this.. don't know much about fuctard machines, street bums or alcohol.. that being said, -I'm just saying- if your just swaping lab computers.. ask for a rain check(to buy at a later time). But if you get to swap out your netbook, I guess it would be nice with a new laptop..  (I guess you earned it..)

 Smiley


also, wtf?? gaming laptops should be thrown in to the street and burned in piles, and their owners shot and hanged as a warning to the younger generations!! (unless they are paying a _lot_ of taxes) Gaming should be done on the DESKTOP PC MASTER RACE!!!!!
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solutions
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« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2013, 06:57:02 18:57 »

Bobbla - you clearly don't understand "use it or lose it" budgets.

You also don't seem to understand that there are many people who TRAVEL, and as such, it's a royal P.I.T.A. to keep full backups of all your project resources.

So, a machine that spends 90% of its time sucking AC juice, working a bit in an airplane, is "mission appropriate". For graphics, accelerator, and processor horsepower, that means GAMING machine, one with FEA, SPICE and other simulation-heavy applications, and having enough processor power that you don't have to wait for your solution to be done by the time you return from your trip.

That means i7-based, 17 inch screen, tons-o-memory, behemoth, and it'll be one that maximizes the spend (load it with memory and disk) of that 2K.

Then, when the project is done, and the client goes away, you still have something useful, even if you chain it to a 27 inch monitor.
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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2013, 08:43:07 20:43 »

Mobile workstation is the keyword Smiley I have dell precision for about two years now without any issues. It has three disk ports (2x 2,5sata, 1xSSD) with huge battery and good graphics. Beside electronics R&D I use my laptop also for 3D design (quadro graphics board works nice with 3D modeling SW) and simulations (i7 and "big" RAM really make machine fast for this). There is one advantage of workstation over gaming laptop: all parts are easy accessible. Workstations are intended for fast maintenance.  To install additional drive you need only one screw removed. For fan cleaning it takes only four, for keyboard only 7, etc... no need to follow 25 pages of disassembly instructions. Only thing I miss is LPT and serial port, but this is mission impossible in modern laptops.
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« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2013, 09:17:38 09:17 »

+1 for don't buy a gaming computer, get a real mobile workstation.  It won't make a lot of difference unless you are using serious CAD like solidworks.  You will look like an ass though if you buy a gaming system with company money.  HP and Dell both make pretty nice mobile workstations.  Nice long warranties and they typically stand behind them pretty well with fast service.
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« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2013, 10:20:27 10:20 »

My money would likely go on an HP Elitebook workstation. That's what I use myself, privately purchased. i7 CPU, Quadro graphics, 8GB RAM, on-board encryption, built-in GPS and mobile phone data SIM slot (I can even do text messaging on the laptop!), magnesium alloy case, spill-proof keyboard, docking station with serial and parallel ports, etc etc.

Mine is an older model, I deliberately sought one out with a 16:10 screen (1920x1200) because I loathe the 16:9 wide screen displays that the industry tells us we all want.

I've had it several years now, the warranty finally runs out next month I think. Other than a dead pixel on the screen it's had no issues whatsoever. I have used it for running a wide range of software including things like Proteus, Altera Quartus II, the usual digital and analogue simulators, Accelrys Discovery Studio (molecular visualisation) etc.
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« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2013, 08:55:31 08:55 »

For me I would choose Toshiba over HP anytime. Top end Toshiba Qosmio X70-AST2GX1 around 1900 USD (Link ). I have a one with lower specs and it is more than I need and I have almost the same tasks as you explained. I would suggest getting multiple screen (at least 2), it will make your life easier. Some of the specs :
Intel® Core™ i7-4700MQ quad core processor
Windows 8
32GB DDR3L memory
256GB Solid SDD + 1TB (5400RPM) hard drive
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 770M 3GB with Optimus™
Blu-ray Disc® Rewriteable (BD-RE)Drive
1920x1080 TruBrite display
Intel® Centrino® Wireless-N (WIDI Ready)
2MP (1080p) webcam
LED backlit keyboard
HDMI output with 4K capability

Of course you can get another one from the series with lower specs and less money. 
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« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2013, 12:24:46 12:24 »

if for the working i think you need long life battery and good stability.
I use HP for longer untill battery life time end 2 round but it's still alive.
for your consider.
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« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2013, 06:40:09 18:40 »

A design machine should EAT batteries. A machine that conserves batteries is for email and PowerPoint jockeys, not hardcore designers.

You can buy extra batteries, you can't buy the extra hours it takes to run simulations if you buy a "laptop". At "work", you are on the adapter, so it doesn't matter ow long the batteries last. It's only when traveling, perhaps when visiting clients/customers that you need battery and even then, it's rarely more than a couple of hours.
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TucoRamirez
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« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2013, 06:53:10 18:53 »

btw the only default i fond on elitebook is the dc jack... i can take out the battery and work at home with AC only because every time i move the laptop next to my bed (no jokes please) or just when i'm sat down in the sofa, as long as charger is a little bit heavy, it kinda pulls on the jack and ... whooop  !!
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« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2013, 09:41:16 09:41 »

Hi all,

The most important is the SSD (only 17" machine notebooks have in general the possibility to do that without removing the original drive).

This makes the overall performance 3,2 times faster than the same machine without SSD. (starting W7 in 23 secs in stead of 75s REALY MAKES the difference, even after the boot).

Not choosing the SSD is completely wrong this days. Specialy when you have a budget of €2k.... Don't look essentialy to buy the machine ready to use, take a look at the possibility to upgrade the machine (by yourselve if necessary).

For the rest : choose a lot of memory and a i7 with the highest frequency.... Since service is done by the lab, not of any importance for the choice...


greetz
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solutions
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« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2013, 11:47:56 11:47 »

^If you're not using VM, what difference does the disk make?
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TucoRamirez
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« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2013, 01:57:01 13:57 »

I'll check pcs from Dell and HP this week to give form to my final choice...
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