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Author Topic: what about a ultrasound skin massager ??  (Read 1848 times)
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TucoRamirez
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« on: May 10, 2013, 01:51:14 13:51 »

Hello, i was guessing if that gadget works or not ^^  and how to build that kind of stuff, because i havent' see any diy  specfically for skin on the net and a lot of  chinese products...

Google is not giving me more clues than standard electrostimulators ...  but i see all of the skin have frequencies in the order of MHz ...
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Magnox
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« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2013, 09:19:21 21:19 »

Works to do what? From a quick glance it looks like they are claiming that it aids in things like acne healing and wrinkle reduction.

I have experience with 'proper' ultrasound therapy units. I have a dodgy back and bought my own many years ago, before the Chinese started selling them on eBay. Mine was an ex-veterinarian unit that was used on race horses and ran at 1MHz or 5MHz. Basically, the ultrasound penetrates the surface and vibrates deeply inside muscle (and other) tissue. This causes heating which stimulates blood flow and lymph transport. I can confirm that it does have a positive benefit.

As to the lower frequency these 'skin massagers' seem to work on, the vibrations will penetrate relatively shallowly into the tissue. I can imagine that it might be beneficial to the skin. Stimulating/assisting fluid movement is generally helpful for removing toxins and increasing blood flow to aid healing. I doubt the effects are anything spectacular though, otherwise it would be big news!

In terms of making one, I would imagine a good tweeter would go that high. Certainly high-power ultrasound transducers in the relevant frequency range are readily available on eBay. Just run it from a basic oscillator and power amp.

The real ones, running at MHz, use ceramic transducers usually in a steel housing. Again, driving them is simply a matter of an oscillator and amplifier, although power output must be carefully controlled.
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TucoRamirez
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« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2013, 09:43:04 21:43 »

Thanks for your hints.

It's to increase the effectiveness of the active effect of some facial cream treatment ( ohh facial  and cream  ...  pye pye pye ...)  [ok, seriously speaking a friend of mine that is doing some stuff with creams for beauty ask me if it was possible to build that gizmo to perform custom test and further for sell]

so she ask me for a 5MHz one, and that was the instant when my brain told me ... uhm a tweeter caaant pass that... so do you have any more clues to inspire me to build one (analog or digital controlled ... dont care) . (or at least wher/how to find that transducer... fartnell??? )

« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 09:50:40 21:50 by TucoRamirez » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2013, 10:25:37 22:25 »

I've not come across the transducers themselves, but similar frequencies are used for material examination (stress/cracks) probes so they should be available somewhere. A quick ebay search finds quite a few such probes at around 50ish.

5MHz will not have much effect I would think though. The whole point of using the high frequency is to penetrate deeply into tissue, far beyond where the cream on the surface of the skin will see any useful effect. The lower frequency units (10KHz to 50KHz) might do something more at the surface, possibly even increasing the absorption rate/depth of the cream by agitating the skin and pores. I'm just guessing though. Shame I'm not doing a PhD... I can imagine all the testing on willing young subjects wanting a miracle beauty treatment...

NASA investigated (with success) the healing-promoting properties of red light. I forget the exact wavelength, but it was close to one of the standard LED colours. It has a similar effect to the ultrasound in increasing blood flow and lymph removal in the tissue, and promotes cell reproduction. Just a related thought.
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sfiga69
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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2013, 10:40:30 22:40 »

See if this can help you

http://www.google.it/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nuevaelectronica.com%2FElectromedicina%2FLX1627.pdf&ei=v1mNUcPfG-OO4AT8w4HABw&usg=AFQjCNF1XIT-AaPumIswYUfXOB92CcFvmw&bvm=bv.46340616,d.bGE

is a kit of nuovaelettronica Italian magazine of 2005

R.
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Parmin
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« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2013, 01:44:03 01:44 »

I have old set of bones that I have used for many decades.
Often when visiting my physiologist, she used ultrasonic "massager" system to work on my spine.
I understand that they work only on hard tissue such as bone and cartilage but bypass the soft tissue such as skin and flesh.

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solutions
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« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2013, 05:04:31 05:04 »

I'm with Parmin  - it promotes healing in cartilage by pulverizing and heating tissue.

Why are so many here people falling for quack medicine stuff? I was under the impression that most people here's brains ran on common sense.

Make a placebo for her - a heater with a closed loop controller, set it for, say 110 degree F. She won't know the difference, nor will the customers.

I don't believe that heating the exterior is illegal. Penetrating the skin with a controlled medical device, without a license, might land you and your girlfriend in federal prison in the USA.

Forget the skin BS - the real money is in teledildonics
« Last Edit: May 11, 2013, 05:08:13 05:08 by solutions » Logged
TucoRamirez
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« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2013, 09:39:52 09:39 »

Hehhehe placebo !!  this is cosmetics signature concept ^^   

Ok, after this skin penetrating productive lesson of how to send her to jail ^^   i think i'll go back to my ble112 stuff ^^ 
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Parmin
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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2013, 02:09:49 14:09 »

Don't discount cosmetic industries.
Many of my clients (and by proxy, me) made a shit load of money doing real time testing for claims made by cosmetic manufacturers.
To claim that a product can reduce wrinkles, in developed countries, you have to be able to prove it.
And thus often I was engaged to design and develop new way to test and measure the claims.
These are big assed money industry and they are not shy in buying tools and things to prove their claim.
They are even more interested if you can give them an impressive display of product.. after all they are working on beautifying appearances.

Sadly, in undeveloped countries and for the uneducated masses everywhere, the unscrupulous bastards can claim anything, even such as using poison for beauty.. (Ok BOTOX are also used by developed countries, such are exceptional case)

TR, if you have a way and an actual study to prove that this works, contact me, my clients might be able to convert this into some dough.

Posted on: 11 May 2013, 22:03:27 - Automerged

Now that I am relaxed and having a beer, I thought about this further..

In my mind, skin (epidermis) are made of many cracks and crevices, placing ointment on the cracks might not fill the crack and thus might not act effectively.
By applying some force to the skin either by stretching or pushing the surface, there are chances that the epidermis might absorb the ointment better.
So there might be some realistic claim on this system, but you have to be able to prove it by quantitative studies over time.
Like any structured lab trial, you have to document everything, from ambient temperature, humidity, skin temperature, ointment temperature etc etc etc...
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TucoRamirez
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« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2013, 04:13:36 16:13 »

so Parmin-san, do you think it's still a good idea to invest my time playing with skin stuff? 
But the idea of build a testbench will blow my friend's brain ^^  ... anyway i'll propose it to her ...

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Parmin
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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2013, 12:48:09 00:48 »

You aint got much to lose my friend, you started this topic after all.
You may have plenty to gain instead if your product is unique and proves correct. Smiley
OTOH if the product already out there, you have very little chance unless you can patent it differently.
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solutions
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« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2013, 06:14:57 06:14 »

Skin is dead. Putting anything on dead is not going to make it rise from the dead. Most of this quack stuff causes inflammation which swells the underlying tissue stretching the skin temporarily. So, pummeling the tissue below the dead skin layer causing it to swell can work...but so will throwing your arm into a wood chipper ;-)
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Parmin
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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2013, 07:35:08 07:35 »

Skin is dead. Putting anything on dead is not going to make it rise from the dead. Most of this quack stuff causes inflammation which swells the underlying tissue stretching the skin temporarily. So, pummeling the tissue below the dead skin layer causing it to swell can work...but so will throwing your arm into a wood chipper ;-)

You are right, but like hair, dead stuff stuck, so either you remove them or make them perceive ably beautiful.

Putting ointment on skin is somewhat like putting polish on your wooden furniture (most of the time they are dead too btw).  Grin
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solutions
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« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2013, 10:41:04 10:41 »

Or.for that real dead look, you can put ointment on your wooden mannikin furniture



Got wood, Parmin?

Go buff it
 Grin
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« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2013, 10:42:25 22:42 »

I want to hear more about teledildonics.  I'd also be interested in televaginics... for a friend.
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« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2013, 01:37:57 01:37 »


Didn't know you are into these solutions..

Most excellent, quiet and all in the correct posture too.
Got view from another angle?
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« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2013, 10:10:59 22:10 »

The inspiration is from here, the living ones:

Allen Jones artworks, and the video where he get some protest for his works.

Edit:
I got a friendly warn from a good friend by pm about the picture posted, so i remove it, replacing it with the link to the artist website.
I myself think this is an Art not a Porn, but if moderation think this is not appropriate then please delete this post, and don't punish me...  Shocked


-ichan
« Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 05:44:11 17:44 by Ichan » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2013, 08:25:48 20:25 »

Hi,

May be the attachment and the link below can provide some help.

http://electrotherapy.org/modalities/ultrasound.htm

I have professionally developed a few electrotherapy products for some clients including Ultrasound(Uses PLL based frequency generation with software tuning to match sound head's natural resonance frequency for better output and less heat)

Regards
Sougata
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« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2013, 09:49:00 21:49 »

Where's a good (aka cheap) source for u/s heads?

For the rookies, make SURE that circuit andig posted can only be used on a GFCI circuit - better yet, add one to it.

@Parmin: it appears to have some termite damage at one end...
 Tongue
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Parmin
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« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2013, 01:08:10 01:08 »

Bleh forget GFCI, just use batteries.
They got to be portable anyhow.
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« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2013, 09:05:07 09:05 »

True - but you still have to idiot proof it while running on the charger
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TucoRamirez
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« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2013, 09:43:23 09:43 »

sorry i'm a little busy this days debugging a BT4 code that pisses me off...

I'll be back soon to the topic :p  ... btw nice pictures !!!
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« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2013, 01:23:24 01:23 »

True - but you still have to idiot proof it while running on the charger

Make it to charge on a cradle..  large cradle complete with mirror, and ointment jar holders..
it will be impossible to use it while stuck on charger.
Ergo.. idiot proof.
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TucoRamirez
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« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2013, 08:51:29 08:51 »

So , where can i buy the transducer (1 or 5MHz ) Huh    I'm beginning to have some free time to do crash dummie test !!!

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