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Author Topic: 12V motorcycle TURN SIGNAL flasher  (Read 25456 times)
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mitsos
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« on: September 13, 2010, 08:26:08 20:26 »

hi

this a very simple TURN SIGNAL flasher that I created a long time ago.

It is operated at 12V as the blinking frequency of the led is reduced to the standard value.

regards
mitsos
« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 03:29:15 03:29 by bbarney » Logged
oldvan
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« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2010, 11:36:55 23:36 »


Nice minimum parts count circuit!!

I was unable to find an English datasheet for the relay you used, but
it seems like this would be pretty rough on the LED, applying blasts
of Huh 85 mA Huh coil current through it.  What is coil resistance?

Perhaps move the LED (Plus a current limiting resistor) to parallel
C1, but then would need larger value of C.

LED and R across J1-J2 would work.  This would light the LED when
the bulb is off rater than when it is on.
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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2010, 12:13:00 00:13 »

oldvan your missing the load of the relay contacts 2 to 4 12volt lamps, as to the coil resistance for the Omron G2U-112P the 12volt is 400R and the 5volt version is 100R.
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oldvan
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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2010, 01:19:00 01:19 »

A very nice efficient relay!  I like that!

For the 12V version pull-in voltage would be perhaps 9 Volts across the 400 Ohm coil.

9V / 400 Ohm = 22.5 mA through coil and LED.   No problem for most any LED.

Simple and elegant.  I like that.

I'd have gotten carried away and had a voltage regulator, a PIC10F200, and a power FET.
My result would have been higher parts count and likely more costly.
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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2010, 01:31:14 01:31 »

only problem would be the flash rate, in uk you can get fined if it is too fast, or too slow,
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mitsos
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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2010, 03:19:19 15:19 »

hi

I confirm these:
-the resistance of relay coil is 400 Ohm
-the blinking frequency in branded leds is fuction of applied voltage (look at the attachment)
-the commercial flashers operate at 85c/m (around 1.41 Hz)

so my requirement to build up one as most possible simple, reliable, cheap flasher is that you see.
only four components and a small drawback as it functions around 1.75 Hz or105 c/m
also the blinking led you can mount at the panel of motorcycle, for "flasher in use" indicator.

If you open ready made flashers you'll see either one version with: a special relay with two coils, a capacitor and one resistor or a full electronic version with some resistors, transistors capacitors and the relay.

Which one do you prefer?
regards
mitsos
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Faros
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2010, 02:14:49 02:14 »

Try this one ... it is the cheapest (yet solid state) 12V 1 Amp flasher , based on the cheap LM317T ... change R1 to R3 values to adjust flashing rate.

It is "most possible simple, reliable, cheap flasher is " ...  I guess ... Wink
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 02:17:00 02:17 by Faros » Logged
mitsos
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2010, 08:02:01 08:02 »

hi

Faros your circuit is irrelevant to my topic.

regards
mitsos
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Faros
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« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2010, 08:12:11 20:12 »

@mitsos

will you explain why it is irrelevant? ... I really couldn't get it myself.
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2010, 12:43:39 00:43 »

Strange mitsos, the thread's title contains 'flasher' word, and Faros gave another successfully working flasher.

Next time you will be warned for disdaining other members contributions, also you don't have the right to specify how members must think, mitsos.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2010, 12:50:01 00:50 by metal » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2010, 02:36:30 02:36 »

I think the word to be used should be "different" instead of "irrelevant"

although both system works, depending on what you have in your junk box, you can have a working circuit with either design.

In my case, I think Faros's design would be easier to implement, because I ALWAYS have an LM317 regulator, and I seldom have a flasher led.
Besides, due to its dependency of relay type, and the actual moving part of the relay, mitsos's  design seems to be a little weaker.

Like Oldvan, I would usually go for a PIC and a power FET.
These two circuit opens my eye a bit wider Smiley  good on you guys.
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mitsos
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« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2010, 10:39:57 22:39 »

hi

to: metal (moderator)
Is it the practice in this forum to send similar,  but for different application, replies in any thread?
For example some member post a topic "Kaspersky keygen",
so is it good practice to send someone a reply to this topic, a keygen for Bascom, because the topic in its title has the word keygen?
I'm from country in which borned the democracy.
I'm not Hitler and by no way Ι disdain anyone here.
I'm active to this forum from 2007 and I think you are very strict with me.
I have the pleasure to share with all members here

to Faros:
irrelevant:
my flasher has application in automotive
it is proposed to flash two lamps rated each one at 12V/21W
it has very little components
you can exploit the blinking led as optical indicator, and you can hear the clicks of relay as audible indicator when the flasher is working (this is why I don't prefer the FET)
it keeps the flashing rate when the lamps draw current
and I think you can't find this idea anywhere: books magazines or internet

regards
mitsos


'keygen' -> Are you trying to twist the facts here? I can say this is also irrelevant to this issue!
You are very strict to yourself and others. You could have simply said I want to the sound of the relay, instead of saying 'irrelevant', you could simply say current consumption is ... and expplained why for example, went through all this trouble to say you wanted the relay sound, that's what I mean by strange. How can others know what's going on your brain? Regardless of how active you are, no one is above the rules. Where you were born is also irrelevant to this topic and this thread and the current issue, which I say, dies here, or I must lock the topic.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 06:07:20 18:07 by metal » Logged
bbarney
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« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2010, 03:52:04 03:52 »

mitsos
I have changed the subject line to read as it should have in the first place  
Quote
12V motorcycle TURN SIGNAL  flasher
your subject line was  
Quote
12V motorcycle flasher
In the future add a little more description or a better description to the Subject line
« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 03:58:53 03:58 by bbarney » Logged

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Faros
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« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2010, 05:34:07 17:34 »

@mitsos

You simply posted a vague request followed by a reply to those who trying to help that their suggestion is irrelevant (without telling why) ; and when the moderator find this attitude as "STRANGE" and trying to direct your attention then you object; rising the democracy flag!!;  I believe your definition of democracy needs profound revision.  

You could  have simply phrased your title to “turn signal flasher” from the beginning as you did later and save our time (and yours as well).

About the suggested relay flasher:

Forgive me if I didn't think that you really want to but an OMRON relay on a motorcycle and still perceive sound of its fainted click while the motorcycle engine is running !!! ; do you think so?

The proposed “turn signal relays” are specially designed as an opened frame relay with both flange and enclosure are to enhance its acoustic properties. Also, the most important safety aspect is that it should indicate its flashing action for real … i.e. it should indicate when the bulb are burned out or the flasher relay is defective. This should change the whole design since a raider will put his live on a turning signal that the LED indicates that it is working while the fact it doesn't … this action has been accomplished by thermal relays up till the late 80’s (I guess); the bulb itself was a part of the circuit so that it notify the driver when his flasher is malfunctioning or his bulb is burned out; ever since the early 90’s vehicle manufactures started using a mixed electro / mechanical designs … modern cars use electronically generated sound with better (multi-octave) sounds; others are still synthesize the same click sound electronically …  either ways they have a method of feedback to notify the driver about his flasher function.  

Regards,

Faros.


Fight dies here Faros
« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 07:07:29 19:07 by metal » Logged
mitsos
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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2010, 06:11:37 18:11 »

hi

Faros surely one thing for what must be apologized is my bad english.

I have the service manual for my motorcycle, the "flasher" unit it refers as turn signal relay as bbarney corrects me.

Also from my description I think it is apparent what is the propose of my circuit.

Anyway all your comments are welcome.

regards
mitsos

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Faros
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« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2010, 09:09:06 21:09 »

@mitsos

No problem mitsos; we share friendship as we share electronics here ...

by the way: where is the country that democracy was born and doesn't speak English? ... can't think of one ...

No more out of topic talk, stay on the original topic please.


@metal

mitsos has apologized … this is an exceptionally brave attitude rarely seen in forums.
I was trying to cool things … some times it is judicious to switch the topic.     
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 01:58:29 01:58 by Faros » Logged
andybiker
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« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2010, 03:00:37 15:00 »

Many years ago I wanted to make a flasher relay for a small motorbike. This was a 6 volt system but the principle is the same! I had the usual problem with stopping at traffic lights, brake light on, indicators would flash 5 times then stay on, flattening the battery further.
I tried a microprocessor, 555 timer, and other CMOS oscillators but ALL were affected by the noisy electrics!
The only thing that worked well was a 2-transistor multivibrator circuit!
2 transistors, 3 resistors, 1 relay and a diode.
worked well, I built 3 of them for a friend and my mum's moped.

try it!
Andrew
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