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Author Topic: measuring the length of the hair follicle under the skin  (Read 11210 times)
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mbyka
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« on: May 23, 2021, 03:03:06 03:03 »

This is my new curiosity guys!!!

Is there such a device known?
a device will be able to measure the length of hair follicles under the skin! will graphically display or display the value in mm

How can I view the follicles  under skin? with/on a glcd or tft lcd?

With what kind of technology does such a procedure provide successful results?
subcutaneous imaging technologies

(MR) magnetic resonance
ultrasound
lidar
xray
or another device belonging to technology that I haven't met yet.

Is there anyone who owns the original service manual for these devices? or a site address where I can download?
maybe there is free (open source) viewing software or something!

I want to meet/learn with such technologies ,with the right theoretical and practical knowledge.

You cannot even imagine how much I would like to be able to benefit from the experiences of experienced people who have developed projects on such devices / technologies ...


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solutions
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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2021, 06:34:21 06:34 »

Why?
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mbyka
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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2021, 06:56:07 06:56 »

what does it mean this question?

i want to add usefull extra powerfull function for my skin care device...
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solutions
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2021, 07:04:45 07:04 »

What are you doing with the information? What "function"?
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bobcat1
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2021, 07:29:14 07:29 »

Hi ,

It is possible but complicated , to do this you will need a high resolution ultra sound scanner or a high resolution thermal imager and a budget of million's to develop a product base on this ideas.....

All the best

Bobi
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mbyka
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2021, 07:50:00 07:50 »

can high resolution ultra sound scanner detect and show the hair undir skin?
i was know this kind devices are good for human flesh and bone to detect ,show and analyze

  high resolution thermal imager,As the name suggests, these devices are devices that can detect temperature differences.
designing such a device to measure the length of the hair under the skin? thought-provoking !!

I wish such a devices had the original service manuals and I could see its electronic circuit diagrams.
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solutions
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2021, 07:52:20 07:52 »

Ultrasound is impossible
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mbyka
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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2021, 07:54:52 07:54 »

What are you doing with the information? What "function"?

I produce devices used in the field of beauty and cosmetics, skin care devices, laser hair removal devices and so on.
I wanted to make the length of the hairs under the skin visible before and after the session (is it possible?) I'm investigating this.


« Last Edit: May 23, 2021, 08:01:40 08:01 by mbyka » Logged
solutions
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2021, 08:06:42 08:06 »

So, you don't want the length of the hair, you want the depth of the tip of the hair below the skin surface?
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mbyka
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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2021, 08:42:00 08:42 »

yeahh, yes.
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devetka
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« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2021, 01:47:37 13:47 »

Not sure how will ultrasound work considering cross section of the hair is very small, but in theory you should have some of the soundwaves return, you would have to experiment with different frequencies as standard 35-45kHz might not be high enough.

I'd personally try to attack this with light and photocell. I'd measure how different wavelengths all the way from ultraviolet to infrared are absorbed by the skin where no hair exist vs where there is hair and where there is hair at different length and then try to compare that. It works pretty good for oximeter for e.g. it uses 2 leds at different wavelengths and single photocell, one wavelength is more absorbed when there's oxygen, and the other one more absorbed when there's no oxygen.. ( https://medicine.uiowa.edu/iowaprotocols/pulse-oximetry-basic-principles-and-interpretation ) ... you could try to make experiment with bunch of different light sources to see how will different depth hair affect it
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« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2021, 03:27:37 15:27 »

Why?
maybe better than contemplation navel fluff.
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mbyka
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« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2021, 08:25:40 20:25 »

devetka;

Frankly, the theoretical ideas that crossed my mind were the same.
for viewing;
1-I will take electrical signals to transfer to a GLCD as shown in the figure.
2-Or using an ir or uv camera (if available) and working on a color tft screen (a kind of image processing) using a sbd board working with a linux os, making a software with qt and pyhton or with c ++.

But it is very important that this device is really successful. It should not be a fake device with fake information.
The most critical part in this project is the detector and how the signals coming from this detector should be processed (by which method).

Where should I start or what software and tools should I use for image processing with qt and phyton or c ++.
Can anyone knowledgeable about this issue help me?

"You should learn to use this program and the following tools.
Or maybe there are ready-made package programs, open source code. "

Posted on: May 23, 2021, 08:22:34 20:22 - Automerged

maybe better than contemplation navel fluff.


sorry i could not see what do you mean?
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devetka
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« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2021, 01:39:50 13:39 »

@mbyka, unfortunately I have no experience in image processing so can't help other than "lot of developers use openCV" and that most dermatology instruments I seen use light and camera. You can get some camera with IR filter removed (there are some ready made for rpi), shine different light frequencies and look at the image and try to figure out if you can deduct something from that. As for tools, I'd start with rpi, C/C++ and opencv
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PICker
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« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2021, 05:44:57 17:44 »

I think this paper may help you
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mbyka
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« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2021, 06:42:31 18:42 »

to be honest i found it too
after i read this papers i saw i need the dedector design details and dedector signals processng method what?

thank you
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LabVIEWguru
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« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2021, 11:34:58 23:34 »

I don't know if this will help, but:

My wife had Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma three times. (!st time systemic, 2nd time ocular, but without breast cancer and the 3rd time she developed a tumor over the motor cortex of her brain.) She survived. The drugs they game her really messed with her endocrine system. So, she grew some facial hair (NOT something to bring up.) So, I took her to a dermatologist here in the US for treatment and here's what I found out:

LASER is no good unless the hair is black. The LASER transmits heat to the hair follicle. it takes many visits and is very expensive over time. The LASER is ineffective against white hair. The white hair scatters the light and the follicle doesn't heat. I work in the medical field and they recommend I grasp the hairs with hemostats (locking forecepts) and pull the hairs out of the skin. It takes time, but is the most effective. When you remove them, it is just like in the books - the hair is attached to a follicle and is about one-forth of an inch under the skin.

I thought about using tape to do it quickly, and my wife offered to castrate me. So I pay attention to her. I hope this helps.

LabVIEWguru.     
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mbyka
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« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2021, 11:24:54 11:24 »

First of all, I wish you a very, very healthy days

There is also a "needle epilation" device for white hair in its production.it is a bit of a laborious task.but it is effective.
Maybe you've heard of it. You can try it if you want (if still needed)

all I care about is the hair under the skin..and being able to measure their height / length (display on a screen)
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PICker
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« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2021, 12:32:27 12:32 »

You can try with ultrasounds
https://www.medfinis.cl/img/libros/[email protected]
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mbyka
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« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2021, 06:40:47 18:40 »


thank you PICke
 also have this document too.
the google !!
but any orginal service manuals(for discover tecnic of elektronic circuit) and also comunucation topology with main board and dedectör ) ..i could not find.
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« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2021, 10:31:45 22:31 »

I found the first document in the databases of my University, the second one also as full text on the net.
Unfortunately I was unable to find something different from a technological point of view
I'm sorry it wasn't useful to you, I hope someone can help you and you can solve the problem.
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mbyka
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« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2021, 11:22:41 23:22 »

thank you so much, i will continue try to do somethings...
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« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2021, 11:20:11 11:20 »

I checked over 300 abstracts and found only one potentially interesting article even though I don't think it solves your problems yet. I think your project is really innovative.
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mbyka
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« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2021, 04:46:04 16:46 »



Whereas I was thinking that somebody must have done something ... I guess I'll be the first !! if I can.
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Sideshow Bob
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« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2021, 07:36:21 19:36 »

Have you looked at this paper https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21070465/#:~:text=Results%3A%20The%20mean%20length%20of,extends%20down%20to%201.8%20mm.
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mbyka
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« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2021, 05:38:44 05:38 »

thank you for your interest close.
i looked this abstract ,you know google
guys i did more searc at google beleive me i read all of them (i think i can say )
then i opened my topic here becaouse i saw  need a device service manuals for these kind devices how they work
and i am sure i need a dedector device  and a control card and a sodtware(or embedded system both together board and lcd  and software together will work)
but from where i should start ?

how can i build a device that will show on the lcd screen under skin hair lenght?

with any of this kind devices topolgy
(MR) magnetic resonance
ultrasound
lidar
xray
with a simple project with 18f47Q43 series pic mcu
with pic 16 bit mcu or 32 bit(with linux)
with rasperry pi and linux

or another system what it can be!!

with linux system can be OT and c++ or qt with phyton   i will buy some traning books and video tutorials to learn them

if you can find existing some device service mauals about that topolgy i will be so happy...."subcutaneous imaging devices"
« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 05:40:46 05:40 by mbyka » Logged
solutions
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« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2021, 03:59:02 03:59 »

Seems some of you are reading what you want to hear vs what is written.

All of these papers use in vitro methods - NONE are in vivo, which is your goal, so I don't see where, from all of this, you get the idea you can make a measurement without ripping out hair samples from a person.

Nothing in any of these papers says it's been done (I can't access the medfinis website with the PDF, which is against Sonsivri rules in any case to post that way...why didn't you put the PDF on a file host vs having us walk into a tracking cookie trap?).
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mbyka
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« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2021, 07:37:58 19:37 »

i did,
ovid platform is interested to me...

Visible Body® Interactive 3D Anatomy and Physiology Modules
New edition of Human Anatomy Atlas...
 i changed my plan/idea to do my project with visible device for under skin showing phyton+qt or c++ and qt  after saw their New edition of Human Anatomy Atlas..
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Poty
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« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2021, 03:20:59 03:20 »

Hello. Just a humble idea... please don laugh very hard.... What about resistivity? just a brainstorm... you have different surfaces from the tip of the hair to the root. With an extracted one, measure resistance from tip to root, and check sides too... worst result will be that you lost a little time testing a hair with it's root.
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mbyka
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« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2021, 08:39:06 20:39 »

In fact, it is very important to get fast and accurate reliable results...
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« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2023, 04:04:15 16:04 »

Here is how I would do it. (I have used this method to measure the area / size of punctures inside the human ear drum.
Under a bright light and for fair people you can see how deep the hair goes under the skin. Else you can pull one hair and measure.

Get a USB Microscope from Aliexpress I got one called the Andonstar.
Get the highest resolution CCD you can afford. I think I paid like 98$ for mine.
I also used a 8$ 5mm USB camera before this.
But Andonstar s/w has a measure function.
You calibrate at the zoom level your using. Then you can measure the hair. Length. (You take a pic). And the s/w does the measuring.
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rtm
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a.k.a. klug


« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2023, 02:55:49 02:55 »

I remember this old interesting post, as I thought for a long time about a possible solution. I have found a new idea when reading this thread again now.

You can find a hair length under the skin quite precisely by this procedure:

1) You should give 2 pills with different chemical elements to a patient. Let's say, pill A (for example, with Cu) and pill B (for example, with Fe).
2) The patient should drink pill A. After N days, he should drink pill B. And after the next M days, he should visit you.
3) As hair is growing constantly, it will have two marks at the moment of visit: 1st with Cu and 2nd with Fe.

Imagine the hair with marks A and B, S - skin, P - papilla:

--hair----A--B---S----P

The distance L1 between marks A and B will give you the speed of hair growing: V=L1/N.
The distance from mark B to the skin is L2.
The length of hair under the skin will be L3=V*M-L2.

You can use any suitable spectrometer to find these marks, I do not think that it is difficult now.

These Fe and Cu are only examples here, you should find some other not-dangerous elements or a mix of elements for this method.

-------------------
Ah, I found a better idea right after finishing the previous text. Smiley

The patient is visiting you twice:
1st time you paint his hair near the skin (or can simply cut the hair near the skin) and give him to drink a pill.
2nd time, after a week or two, you can measure the distance between the painted border mark (or cut edge) and the pill mark - it will be the hair length under the skin.
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