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Author Topic: Re: new option for a very low cost WiFi client for IoT  (Read 25989 times)
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an007_rld
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« on: September 07, 2014, 05:13:53 05:13 »

Hi,
ESP8266 SDK reach V1.0.0 (Espressif willing to pay $ 200 to anyone who finds errors in SDK 1.0.0).
Check here (use google translate): [url=http://esp8266.ru/esp82
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 01:59:28 01:59 by an007_rld » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2014, 05:51:00 05:51 »

looks interesting.

a link to your info would be appreciated
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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2014, 10:13:40 10:13 »

I am always scared with chips that do not have a lot of documentations. Although the one you proposed seems very good but if you want something cheap for WiFi/BLE  and greatly documented with and open SDK for development, you might want to check Broadcom's WICED platforms.
The SDK incorporates many example codes, schematics, datasheets, technical documents, Free IDE ...

Quote
The WICED SDK release is structured as follows:
  Apps          : Example & Test Applications
  Doc           : API & Reference Documentation, Eval Board & Module Schematics
  Drivers       : Drivers for WICED evaluation boards
  Include       : WICED API, constants, and defaults
  Library       : Daemons, servers, protocols and peripheral libraries
  Resources     : Resources used by the WICED webserver including scripts, styles, images and HTML.
  Tools         : Build tools, compilers, debugger, programming tools etc.
  Wiced         : WICED core components (RTOS, Network Stack, Wi-Fi Driver, Security & Platform definitions)
  Wiced/WWD     : The WICED Wi-Fi Driver (equivalent to the Wiced directory in previous SDK-1.x releases)
  README.txt    : This file
  CHANGELOG.txt : A log of changes for each SDK revision

I have attached the full readme text for more information.

The chip itself is BCM43362, and you can find many modules based on it. Murata, USI, Inventeksys.

Quote
Hardware Platforms
 * BCM9WCD1EVAL1  : Bare WCD1 WICED evaluation board (generic module)
 * BCM943362WCD2  : Broadcom 43362-based WICED Module with STM32F103 MCU mounted on BCM9WCD1EVAL1
 * BCM943362WCD4  : Broadcom 43362-based WICED Module with STM32F205 MCU mounted on BCM9WCD1EVAL1
 * BCM943362WCD6  : Broadcom 43362-based WICED Module with STM32F415 MCU mounted on BCM9WCD1EVAL1
 * BCM943362WCD8  : Broadcom 43362-based WICED Module with ATSAM4S16B MCU mounted on BCM9WCD1EVAL1
 * BCM9WCDUSI09   : Broadcom 43362-based WICED Module with STM32F205 MCU (includes WM-N-BM-09 WICED SiP) mounted on BCM9WCD1EVAL1
 * BCMUSI11       : USI 43362-based WICED+ Module (STM32F205 MCU, 8Mbit serial flash) mounted on BCM9WCD1MFI1
 * BCM9WCDPLUS114 : WICED+ Eval Board (includes BCM43362+STM32F205 WICED+ Module and BCM20702 Bluetooth module)
 * TWRK60D100M    : Freescale Kinetis K60 connected to a USI WM-N-BM-09 WICED SiP via SPI


The cheapest one I have found is on this link, I didn't buy it because the price sounds too good to be true. But if anyone tries it, let us know. I contacted USI myself and they gave me a price < 10$ for their module.
The chip itself is very cheap but it comes in a BGA package.
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an007_rld
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« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2014, 01:03:15 13:03 »

Please see the attached file.

What I find new is the module (with print antenna) can be buy in China for 15.20 yuan ($2.44).
see here: http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.9.6y0llT&id=40602285796&ad_id=&am_id=&cm_id=140105335569ed55e27b&pm_id=

At this point this is only one solution that ensure WiFi connectivity at this price...

There are other solution under $10 that can run OpenWRT (I can give some suggestions) but definitely a WiFi controlled lamp or switch will not need that...

Hope helps,
-an
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« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2014, 05:28:30 17:28 »

There appears to be quite a lot of interest around the ESP8266 . There is some effort to get GCC working at http://www.esp8266.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19&sid=2bcffde786cfebbd3a1cfa422e7ffdbb and if successful, the part can be the controller also instead of just a serially accessible module. There are some boards that breakout all the pins too such as http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6226433326.html , I have some of both the normal modules and the full breakouts on order to see what I can achieve.
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bigtoy
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2014, 05:31:21 05:31 »

Wow, that's pretty cheap.

I've recently done a little proof-of-concept project using a Texas Instruments CC3200. The thing works well. It contains a Cortex-M4 which you get to program, plus a second processor which you don't get to program - that second processor contains the WiFi radio, protocol stacks, etc. So it's a one-chip (kinda) solution for WiFi. I say "kinda" because it requires a serial flash chip. $10 for a module, less than that for just the chip. So not expensive, but the ESP chip is obviously cheaper (although also not in the same league I suspect).
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motox
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2014, 11:51:20 23:51 »

I ordered a couple of ESP8266 modules two weeks ago from Ali.
The price is decreasing week after week. I paid 3.65€ per unit and they were more expensive on the week before. Now they are at 3.55 € single module, or 3.07 €/per module for a lot of two.
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« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2014, 02:40:23 14:40 »

Found a quick youtube video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdBC79jvHkw
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towlerg
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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2014, 03:44:55 15:44 »

For anyone not able/willing to use Ali, these modules are on eBay for £3.98 free post.
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motox
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2014, 05:58:00 17:58 »

Instructions of how to configure server/client TCP sockets with ESP8266:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwK3EhAfht8uWTdBdG55NEFCakE&usp=sharing
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bobcat1
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« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2014, 08:12:26 08:12 »

Hi All

From my point of view it is problematic to develop a product complicated as WIFI ,without support from the manufacture
It is only good to hobbies or people who have time to play with this type of IC.
I will not touch it until I have full support from manufacture even if the cost go down to less then a 1 $
The 3100 & 3200 IC from TI cost more but have full support 

All the best

Bobi
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MisterX
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« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2014, 11:49:44 11:49 »

There is also an english translation of the datasheet here : https://nurdspace.nl/ESP8266
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an007_rld
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« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2014, 02:39:01 14:39 »

Well Bobi,

It seems the space become very crowded and at some point TI need to align the price... It will be a direct competition on that space and the estimated market is huge.
Anyway, there is another entry on the market: MT7681 from MediaTek.

Here is their 3'rd June announcement: http://www.mediatek.com/en/news-events/mediatek-news/mediatek-launches-socs-aimed-at-powering-smart-home-appliances/

A few low cost modules developed based on this chip (below you can find 2 of them); again the price is under TI offer:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/802-11b-g-n-2-4GHz_60002469468.html and http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Hot-Selling-GWF-KM22-MT7681-Serial_1947601622.html

I will update the post as soon as I have more informations; connected home is a host topic today...

Regarding SDK and documentation, maybe this can be solved if you contact directly the company and probably sign an NDA with them...

Hope helps,
Regards,
-an
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biko4710
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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2014, 03:04:11 15:04 »

In my option if I want to use a chip for IoT it should be ready with some kind of scripting language.
I don't want to implement another microcontroller to control the module.

wakeup every hour and do:
- get time via ntp
- get temperature via i2c
- store data on ftp
- goto sleep

An implementation of openWRT would be fine but it's too much.
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bobcat1
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2014, 07:25:54 07:25 »

Hi All

Please remember - if you plan a product with this kind of IC and plan to sell it in the US or Europe You will need to certify it (FCC) and the process cost lot of money
Other wise you can sell it!!!!.

Bobi
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Gallymimu
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« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2014, 05:36:45 05:36 »

any "module" sold without FCC compliance isn't really that useful as anything more than a toy.  Most major regions require some type of intentional radiator compliance.  Of course if you never get caught.....
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an007_rld
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« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2014, 01:35:01 13:35 »

As long as the chip was intend for IoT, obviously the product manufacturer will have to pass FCC as so as UL, CE, etc.. The chip manufacturer have in mind this as long as they target a high volume sells.

-an
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« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2014, 11:23:00 23:23 »

There is now a new website entirely dedicated to the ESP8266  http://www.esp8266.com/
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gan_canny
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« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2014, 01:42:14 13:42 »

A heads up on these 8266 chips.
They come in two versions and to make things a bit more of a challenge the boards are unmarked. Both versions are 3.3v.
The older version has a 57600 baud UART and may reply "ready" to some commands. The CH_P/D pin on the chip must be pulled high.
The older model may be doing the pull up on the pcb.
The newer model has a 115200 baud UART and CH_P/D needs an external connection to pull it up to 3.3v.
The newer ESP8266 repeats the command (EX AT note commands always end in CR LF) if it receives it correctly and appends OK CR LF
When CH_P/D is configured correctly the pcb will have a solid red LED and the second blue led will flash on briefly as the pcb powers up or just after the CH_P/D pin is brought high. The UART is a TTL like interface (only at 3.3v ) The ESP8266 needs some time (1 sec) after power up to prepare itself for use.
//////////////   ESP8266 WiFi interface ////////////////////////
///              baud 115200 8 bit N  1 stop ( standard RS232 at3.3v)
///          component side
//            +-----------------------+
//            |                       |
//            |       antenna         |
///           |                       |
///           | 8266         eeprom   |
///           |                       |
///           +-----------------------+
//            | Gnd GPIO02 GPIO00 Rx  |
//            | Tx  CH_P/D RST   3.3v |
//            +-----------------------+

GPIO pins and RST maybe left unconnected...There is a software RST command AT+RST as alternative to the  hardware RST pin.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 01:46:14 13:46 by gan_canny » Logged
gan_canny
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« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2014, 10:36:03 10:36 »

An update
I have this working with the ESP8266 as client , but it required a fairly complicated FSM in the 3.3v UART interrupt service routine for a PIC 24 chip
The issue is first it is asynchronous and second there is no simple way to know when a response from the ESP8266 is finally complete.
The ESP8266 uses CR+LF as a terminator  a typical response is to repeat the command plus CR+LF then the response CR+LF
however some responses  EX. AT+STATUS continue with additional data then a final CR+LF.
Some commands EX AT+RST have many responses even sometimes  "ready" other times "OK" and even a dump of check sums
This approach makes for a simple PC terminal program interface but having a PIC act as client required a FSM in the UART isr and a timer interrupt
to close out responses that didn't complete within a time limit.
The ESP8266 got connected easily to my wifi access point and captured the IP address granted by the AP
The PC server side interplays well with the ESP8266 as they obtain each others MAC address via ARP then there is the simple 3 way TCP handshake
SYN SYN+ACK ACK this also works well and the ESP8266 easily links up. Data moves to the server via AT+SEND and the server can send asynchronously data to
the ESP8266. In a strict client server this asynchronous data transfer can be managed since the client is master and should not get any unsolicited responses from the server.
I'm no fan of the AT+command approach the NEMA sentence approach Ex GPS sentences with their start and end tokens and crc's is IMHO superior.
The TCP packets are often going to have small payloads like CAM packets since they may be controlling several leds or relays maybe a few as several bytes which is the approach I took.
Some will want a web page interface with POST GET to transfer data to from the ESP8266 but that's even more data stream parsing code for whatever is on the other side of the ESP8266.
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bigtoy
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« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2014, 06:52:41 18:52 »

As an aside, did anyone read the ALiExpress listing the OP posted. Some of what's on that page is hilarious. For example:

    In the absence of more cattle X chip out now is the most cattle X.

    Yue Xin advantages:
        5 ground gas, Xin Yue contacted each employee, are very enthusiastic and gas.

Better wear a gas mask when visiting their office!  :-)
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gan_canny
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« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2014, 09:56:39 21:56 »

I.m unsure as to why Chinese when mechanically translated into English often comes out goofy. In English very few words are tonal ...read is an example... same spelling but can be pronounced in two ways depending on context. It maybe that many words in Chinese are tonal and context is required to get a good translation. Anyway the ESP8266 is effective and by trial and error its responses can be chronicled. The sure thing is that a microprocessor doesn't understand Chinese or English  it just gets  a string of ascii characters... like the ESP8266 will spit out "no fun" at times which the microprocessor sees as an error since it wasn't the correct response like "OK"... a reset and a repeat of the command gets the "OK". I wish they had used a SPI interface for the PCB's the ESP8266 chip has SPI capabilities .....but the UART works even on unsolicited responses since they are delimited by +IPD,n:ddddddd where n is the number of chars after ":" ( represented here as d's )

Posted on: October 05, 2014, 08:25:50 20:25 - Automerged

I suspect there is a bug with the ESP8266 . With command AT+SEND=n,CR LF the ESP8266 response is '>' then a string of data is sent
when I trace my code I see the string written to the ESP8266 as having the exact chars to be sent....it appears the ESP8266 prepends LF to the string
and chops off the last char.....this is what appears in the TCP packet...the work around is to increase the length to be sent by one and to strip off the LF at the server. This isn't proof positive but the data going into the ESP8266 looks correct...it may be my code but it would have to be that the ESP8266 has a LF
sitting in its buffer that gets prepended and sent with the correct data. Debugging as with all asynchronous interfaces is a challenge.
Anyway unless this is confirmed by others the probability is that I have a loose LF somewhere.
Solution
The documentation always shows <0x0d><0x0a> as a delimiter however with AT+SEND=    it only needs one of these if two (<0x0d> or <0x0a> with both the extra
<0x0d> or <0x0a gets prepended to the data to be sent.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 11:28:26 23:28 by gan_canny » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2014, 06:48:32 06:48 »

I am still awaiting my modules to arrive from China, so I cant test directly.

I suggest you check the excellent site http://www.esp8266.com/

for any similar problems.

It sounds like a too simple bug to be a chip problem though, so its probably your code
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« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2014, 08:35:10 08:35 »

Take a look at this site, it includes examples of use for this module.

http://rayshobby.net/?p=9734

Best Regards.
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« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2014, 01:59:52 13:59 »

Anyone know where to get the latest firmware?

I have updated to version 0.9.2.2 (is it the latest???) but experience several wierd things with some AT commands not working correctly.... For example when server is in MUX=0 mode it still allows several clients to connect when only one should be allowed and eventually module hangs with "busy..." message...

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« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2014, 04:02:16 04:02 »

As long as the chip was intend for IoT, obviously the product manufacturer will have to pass FCC as so as UL, CE, etc.. The chip manufacturer have in mind this as long as they target a high volume sells.

-an

HA, no one who does any volume would use an expensive module!  They would do a discrete chip design silly boy!  The whole point of a module is very low volume, the real VALUE in the module is regulatory compliance already taken care of, as well as some easy to use APIs.

Posted on: November 18, 2014, 04:59:54 04:59 - Automerged

Personally I'm most excited about TI's CC3200MOD which isn't officially released that.  That thing is TITS.
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an007_rld
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« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2014, 12:34:12 12:34 »

now the ESP8266 module (with chip antenna) it's $3 for 10pcs: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-lot-ESP8266-serial-WIFI-model-ESP-07-Authenticity-Guaranteed/32225666559.html. If you compare with CC3200 (which is intend to be sold as IC @ $8 budgetary price) the BOM cost will be more than $11.

Hope helps,
-an
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« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2014, 08:26:21 08:26 »

HI

This new module although it look like(FCC logo printed on can) is not FCC certified!

All the best

Bobi 
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« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2014, 09:26:11 09:26 »

HA, no one who does any volume would use an expensive module!  They would do a discrete chip design silly boy!  The whole point of a module is very low volume, the real VALUE in the module is regulatory compliance already taken care of, as well as some easy to use APIs.

Posted on: November 18, 2014, 04:59:54 04:59 - Automerged

Personally I'm most excited about TI's CC3200MOD which isn't officially released that.  That thing is TITS.

I got myself a CC3200 launchpad and I am going to start playing with it. In my opinion the ESP is not meant as direct competitor to the CC3200 or other high end devices. The one my friend have seems pretty slow, so although it will be good enough to send some commands to it over wifi. I highly doubt that it will be of any help for more advanced applications (Audio streaming ...). Anw that is why I got myself a CC3200 launchpad and I will start testing their Audio streaming example from the SDK very soon.

Regards,
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« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2014, 01:20:04 13:20 »

Hi there, I am only a hobbyst but still can think of interesting applications for this cheap module.
I have one unit at hand and been testing with Terminal and Pic combinations.}
It works surprisingly well !

Would like to share my key links for info so far with everybody interested,

Updated AT commands , English  and usefull links for compiler setup ( Manufacter Supported )

Code:
https://github.com/espressif/esp8266_at/wiki


Latest Firmware

Code:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3dUKfqzZnlwRjFaNTUzZFptbzg&usp=drive_web

I will gladly share my experiences if needed

Some helping tutorials and examples around the web , to get started

Greetings
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« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2014, 11:14:24 23:14 »

Application to test the ESP8266 using a USB-Serial converter:
https://github.com/AppStackTH/ESP8266-Config
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Gallymimu
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« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2014, 10:47:51 22:47 »

We have preproduction CC3200MOD modules in hand.  They are supposed to be FCC certified modules under $10/ea at volume.  That's pretty disruptive compared to the competition (and by competition I am not counting non certified china garbage, though that stuff definitely has it's place!!!)
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« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2014, 02:36:01 02:36 »

...sure $10/ module is 5 times more than $2 (12.5 yuan) and probably TI and Espressif use the same TSMC foundries to build the product (doesn't look to me very competitive).
It's similar  for OMAP market that start fading vs. Mediatek SoCs, not because the price for silicon is different just because TI wants to get probably 200-500% revenue based on chips production.

What will happened with TI in the future, we will see, if they will continue the same politics.

And here is another site related to ESP8266: http://esp8266.ru/ (it is in russian but you can use google translate for translation)

Hope helps,
-an
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« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2014, 06:05:44 06:05 »

I bought some ESP-07 http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/esp8266-esp--07.html modules. It has all GPIOs available. Just a matter of caution that there are many pinout pictures on the net which is incorrect. Trust the silkscreen on the board itself. And to boot the module you need short GPIO15 to ground. You can check boot message from TX0 at 74880bps. Do not connect VCC to GPIO2. That will fry the chip. So a matter of caution whenever you need to tire a pin high, using a 10K resistor. I have burned 2 modules when connecting wrongly.

PS: If you got a module with "AI-THINKER" and FCC printed on the metal can and the top link pin is (from left) TXD, RXD, GPIO4, GPIO5, it should be TXD, RXD, GPIO4, GPIO4
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 03:57:30 15:57 by baoshi » Logged
pablo2048
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« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2014, 06:20:45 06:20 »

We have preproduction CC3200MOD modules in hand.  They are supposed to be FCC certified modules under $10/ea at volume.  That's pretty disruptive compared to the competition (and by competition I am not counting non certified china garbage, though that stuff definitely has it's place!!!)
We will see... http://bbs.espressif.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59&sid=378c757fe2c2d86184061a76592e4509
https://apps.fcc.gov/tcb/GetTcb731Report.do?applicationId=794971&fcc_id=2AC7Z-ESP8266EX
http://fccid.net/document.php?id=2436302
:-)
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« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2014, 10:48:13 22:48 »

A low cost evaluation board for ESP-12 (there are some other vendors for the same module):
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Esp8266-ESP-12-wifi-module-esp8266-serial-wifi-coexistence-full-AP-test-board/32247134310.html

Best Regards,
-an
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« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2014, 12:01:59 00:01 »

...sure $10/ module is 5 times more than $2 (12.5 yuan) and probably TI and Espressif use the same TSMC foundries to build the product (doesn't look to me very competitive).
It's similar  for OMAP market that start fading vs. Mediatek SoCs, not because the price for silicon is different just because TI wants to get probably 200-500% revenue based on chips production.

What will happened with TI in the future, we will see, if they will continue the same politics.

And here is another site related to ESP8266: http://esp8266.ru/ (it is in russian but you can use google translate for translation)

Hope helps,
-an

yeah you clearly don't know what you are talking about.  The value in the TI module is that it is FCC certified.  For low volume products (where you would use a module).  FCC compliance for all major markets can cost between $15k and $20k.  That's what a quality module saves you.

Posted on: December 30, 2014, 01:00:32 01:00 - Automerged

PLUS, you have an arm core in the CC3200/CC3200MOD so you don't even need to waste time with another microprocessor.  I'm sure the ESP8266 is great as a toy.
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« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2014, 06:42:22 06:42 »

Even the ESP8266EX is FCC certified - see https://apps.fcc.gov/tcb/GetTcb731Report.do?applicationId=794971&fcc_id=2AC7Z-ESP8266EX . It was just matter of time. And Your PLUS - how many projects have You seen with CC3200/... compared to "china garbage"? Another CPU? - it comes with GCC - same as in my other CPU's and not with some Code Composer Studio Pay Again TI stuff...
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« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2014, 07:26:30 07:26 »

Some useful links about ESP8266:

http://www.planetarduino.org/?cat=3857
http://zeflo.com/2014/esp8266-weather-display/
http://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/ESP8266
https://nurdspace.nl/ESP8266

Cheers.
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« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2014, 10:46:08 10:46 »

Windows users, here is a complete IDE that actually works and it has a lot of code examples:
http://www.esp8266.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=820&sid=783b2f3021078ab65722108fdfadd5d8
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« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2014, 01:00:47 13:00 »

Well, I have several esp07 modules ( almost equivalent to esp12) that have a ceramic antenna and an external antenna connector plus the internal components are in a tin enclosure with a FCC approval stamp and all for under $5 a piece. Sure some will say China products are inferior and use price to validate it. Some will say that China products are just as good or better and the lower price may be a result of not paying the multi-million dollar salaries most US corporate executives expect. Anyway an esp-xx is excellent value and if lua is installed provides a pleasant experience in setting up a $5 wifi client or server.
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« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2015, 01:34:22 13:34 »

Anyone else experiencing stability issues? After 1-5 K connections (varies) the TCP/IP stack stops accepting new TCP connections?

It's still possible to ping the module so ICMP layer is still working...
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 02:25:36 14:25 by Cain » Logged
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« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2015, 02:54:31 14:54 »

Anyone else experiencing stability issues? After 1-5 K connections (varies) the TCP/IP stack stops accepting new TCP connections?

It's still possible to ping the module so ICMP layer is still working...
What firmware do you use (and version)? I'm using nodemcu LUA without this problem...
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« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2015, 03:20:54 15:20 »

I'm using the official firmware version 0.9.2.4 (AT+GMR=0018000902-AI03).
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« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2015, 12:48:43 00:48 »

I'm using nodemcu LUA without this problem...
Thanks for the tip about running lua - that's very interesting. I've recently done a project using a CC3200. It works, but it's all written in C, which is time consuming to write. TI provides example code to help things along, but it's certainly open to improvement. I'd be pretty keen to try writing (and learning) some lua for the ESP.
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« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2015, 01:35:00 13:35 »

Thanks for the tip about running lua - that's very interesting. I've recently done a project using a CC3200. It works, but it's all written in C, which is time consuming to write. TI provides example code to help things along, but it's certainly open to improvement. I'd be pretty keen to try writing (and learning) some lua for the ESP.
Another interesting project is Micropython for ESP8266, but actually its only just basic functionality...
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« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2015, 10:11:23 22:11 »

Interesting blog about electronics but most of the posts are about the ESP8266:
http://scargill.wordpress.com/
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« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2015, 01:32:38 01:32 »

Even the ESP8266EX is FCC certified - see https://apps.fcc.gov/tcb/GetTcb731Report.do?applicationId=794971&fcc_id=2AC7Z-ESP8266EX . It was just matter of time. And Your PLUS - how many projects have You seen with CC3200/... compared to "china garbage"? Another CPU? - it comes with GCC - same as in my other CPU's and not with some Code Composer Studio Pay Again TI stuff...

I've seen ZERO projects with the CC3200, BECAUSE IT JUST CAME OUT!  TI has free code composer for CC3200.

so where can you buy this FCC certified ESP8266EX module. I can't seem to find one anywhere.  I'd actually like to buy a few of them, but I can't find this FCC certified module for sale.

Oh it appears your FCC certified module isn't even a module (http://www.esp8266.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=113&start=50).  Comments on it's spectral performance aren't very good (but good enough is fine by me).

Posted on: January 14, 2015, 02:30:07 02:30 - Automerged

anyone know anything about the processor core on the ESP8266?  It says it's an LX106 but I've not heard of that nor did a quick search turn up much.
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« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2015, 05:32:00 05:32 »

I've seen ZERO projects with the CC3200, BECAUSE IT JUST CAME OUT!  TI has free code composer for CC3200.

so where can you buy this FCC certified ESP8266EX module. I can't seem to find one anywhere.  I'd actually like to buy a few of them, but I can't find this FCC certified module for sale.

Oh it appears your FCC certified module isn't even a module (http://www.esp8266.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=113&start=50).  Comments on it's spectral performance aren't very good (but good enough is fine by me).

Posted on: January 14, 2015, 02:30:07 02:30 - Automerged

anyone know anything about the processor core on the ESP8266?  It says it's an LX106 but I've not heard of that nor did a quick search turn up much.
You can buy it at the same place as CERTIFIED CC3200 - nowhere _yet_ - as I said it's just matter of time. IMHO IoT spirit is in many low cost simple sensors (best fit for ESP8266 or something like that cheap module) and coordinator - for example $25 $20 (unit price) Vocore (Yes it HAS FCC and is available now) with standardized Linux system - both with same compiler (GCC) and Eclipse IDE if You want. Only toy i see here is very expensive TI thing...
One more thing i forgot to mention - i live in EU so i need CE certificate, not FCC - Vocore has both, what about TI?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 06:00:19 06:00 by pablo2048 » Logged
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« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2015, 06:43:30 06:43 »

@galymimu


Tensilica ( now owned by Cadence) Xtensa LX3 32bit


the toolchains etc etc

all you could ever want to know

http://www.esp8266.com/
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« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2015, 11:20:47 23:20 »

You can buy it at the same place as CERTIFIED CC3200 - nowhere _yet_ - as I said it's just matter of time. IMHO IoT spirit is in many low cost simple sensors (best fit for ESP8266 or something like that cheap module) and coordinator - for example $25 $20 (unit price) Vocore (Yes it HAS FCC and is available now) with standardized Linux system - both with same compiler (GCC) and Eclipse IDE if You want. Only toy i see here is very expensive TI thing...
One more thing i forgot to mention - i live in EU so i need CE certificate, not FCC - Vocore has both, what about TI?

What the heck is Vocore?  Shocked Why are we talking about CE now?  Shocked  Oh, you are practicing misdirection by changing the topic and broadening the argument....  Tongue You don't seem listen and just want to WIN a forum argument.  Calling stuff from TI a toy just makes you sound like a kid not a product developer.  But let's not fight.  It's not a pissing contest and I'm sorry for letting it head that way.  I still think you are awesome either way and I have gotten some valuable insight from your comments Pablo.



Seriously though I do want to buy some of these as they might be a good fit lot's of projects like low end consumer and hobbyist products.  That ESP8266EX appears only to be a dev board which was disappointing and why I questioned it hoping you had actually seen a certified module like you claimed and could point us to.

Does anyone know off the top of their heads whether these perform well for low power applications (sleep current, wake time, wake-act-go back to sleep time).  Yeah I know I should probably do my own reading instead of asking, but there's already been some pretty thoughtful research by everyone here.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 11:59:45 23:59 by Gallymimu » Logged
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« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2015, 05:35:47 05:35 »

OMG - after all this you call me a kid and start to judge me - you clearly don't know what you are talking about, but i see your point - never mind...

Power consumption of the ESP8266 is discussed here http://www.esp8266.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=155
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« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2015, 06:50:54 06:50 »

Apples and oranges. You wouldn't use a CC3200 in a product that will cost $20 on a shelf and you wouldn't use an ESP8266 for a $300 smart door lock with video and two way audio.

As I see it, things are pretty simple: need to toggle a switch or report sensor data over wifi? Use an ESP8266. Need to stream audio or video, process or store data, or do crypto? Use a CC3200. These are two very different solutions meant to solve very different problems.
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« Reply #53 on: January 21, 2015, 08:32:02 08:32 »

Stream video with CC3200 (80MHz Cortex Mx CPU) seriously? Any example for that? If i need video and two way audio i prefer to use linux based thing instead of reinventing wheel writing tons of special code for Cortex low memory footprint CPU...
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« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2015, 06:12:39 18:12 »

The CC3200 has a hardware accelerated camera input.

CC3200 vs Linux solution:
- Cheaper
- Lower power
- Smaller footprint
- Well documented
- Real time
- Cheaper to manufacture (QFN)
- Supported by TI
- Don't have to worry about Linux vulnerabilities, eg shellshock
- Don't need an in house Linux expert or consultant for board bringup
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 06:18:22 18:18 by George » Logged
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« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2015, 10:42:59 22:42 »

OMG - after all this you call me a kid and start to judge me - you clearly don't know what you are talking about, but i see your point - never mind...

Power consumption of the ESP8266 is discussed here http://www.esp8266.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=155

Thanks for the link!  Power use in sleep mode on that thing is pretty bad.  So the ESP8266 might not be such a good choice for low power sensing or IoT applications where devices are battery powered.  For reference the link indicated a measurement of 350uA in sleep for the ESP8266 (who knows how accurate that is from a guy on a forum), while the CC3200 is 4uA in hibernate.

For reference TI power documentation http://www.ti.com/lit/an/swra462/swra462.pdf

Microchip RN171 is also 4uA during sleep, but that thing is even MORE expensive.
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« Reply #56 on: January 22, 2015, 06:03:45 06:03 »

Thanks for the link!  Power use in sleep mode on that thing is pretty bad.  So the ESP8266 might not be such a good choice for low power sensing or IoT applications where devices are battery powered.  For reference the link indicated a measurement of 350uA in sleep for the ESP8266 (who knows how accurate that is from a guy on a forum), while the CC3200 is 4uA in hibernate.
Power consumption is 40uA (http://www.esp8266.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=155&start=30) , according to ESP8266 datasheet it has to be under 12uA (https://nurdspace.nl/images/e/e0/ESP8266_Specifications_English.pdf). Can You please measure REAL CC3200 power consumption and please don't forget to measure it with SPI flash...

Posted on: January 22, 2015, 06:14:43 06:14 - Automerged

The CC3200 has a hardware accelerated camera input.

CC3200 vs Linux solution:
- Cheaper
- Lower power
- Smaller footprint
- Well documented
- Real time
- Cheaper to manufacture (QFN)
- Supported by TI
- Don't have to worry about Linux vulnerabilities, eg shellshock
- Don't need an in house Linux expert or consultant for board bringup
This "Hardware accelerated camera" thing is nothing more than 8bit register clocked from PIXELSYNC camera output, connected with some FIFO and DMA - probably near the same as STM32F2/F4 DCIM so it needs RAM for frame buffer. CC3200 has "upto" 256kB RAM and this RAM is for data and code - program loads from SPI flash into RAM (http://www.ti.com/general/docs/datasheetdiagram.tsp?genericPartNumber=CC3200&diagramId=SWAS032E) and that is a problem - actually you can only use camera chip with hardware JPEG codec so transferring realtime video is IMHO just dream. You can only get still JPEG frames (WebSocket Camera example shows 6 JPEG images per second (sic)- http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/swru369a/swru369a.pdf).
CC3200 is cheaper? No way - here is my math:
CC3200 - $18.08 but you need some "vitamins" to get this thing to work - antenna, SPI flash, bunch of R's and C's and PCB - put this together, connect power and you are set
Vocore (http://vocore.io/) - $20 - connect power and you are set...
Lower power - that is right, but if we are talking about "$300 smart door lock with video and two way audio" it probably won't go from batteries.
Smaller footprint? - Complete VoCore 2.54x2.54cm - what is exactly size of COMPLETE CC3200 module with antenna and SPI?
Well documented? - I can't judge quality of Linux Open-WRT vs TI, but i learn from linux community more than from reading the documentation
Realtime? - what does this mean? TI-RTOS? Do i need this in our "$300 door bell" application?
Don't have to worry about Linux vulnerabilities, eg shellshock - yes, definitely, but do you really know about vulnerabilities inside TI closed source tcp stack, and ssl library? Does anybody check for example man in the middle attack against CC3200 SSL?
Don't need an in house Linux expert or consultant for board bringup - so you hire someone who learn CC3200 and write already written software instead? Really?
And there is more things about this CC3200:
1. only up to 8 TCP/UDP connections available in one time
2. only 2 SSL sockets (come on - SFTP need 2 - one for command and one for data...)
3. ipv6 ?
You guys don't get me wrong - CC3200 is probably good module, but in light of new chinese SOC it came too late...
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 08:20:57 08:20 by pablo2048 » Logged
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« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2015, 03:19:24 15:19 »

Quote
Vocore (http://vocore.io/) - $20 - connect power and you are set...

If you need a decent module that run OpeWRT based on RT5350F try this vendor: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Serial-to-ethernet-module-serial-rj45-network-module-serial-to-tcp-ip/211069_798874966.html
...or this one: http://toplink-tech.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-218431933/Serial_To_WiFi_Module.html

You need to ask for memory upgrade to accommodate openwrt... It's similar with vocore but cheaper.
-an
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 03:40:04 15:40 by an007_rld » Logged
Gallymimu
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« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2015, 07:47:41 19:47 »

Couple of corrections on your statements Pablo
CC3200MOD doesn't need flash, it's included
CC3200MOD price is under $10 in volume according to Avnet (not officially released yet)

Vocore looks cool.


Something else that came while I was talking to one of our customers is antenna diversity.  I hadn't really thought about it before but it's an important feature if you want decent range out of your module.
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« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2015, 10:07:42 22:07 »

You guys don't get me wrong - CC3200 is probably good module, but in light of new chinese SOC it came too late...

Totally agree, this chip was priced for a pre-ESP8266 world.
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« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2015, 05:28:33 05:28 »

@Gallymimu - Oh, I thought that we are talking about CC3200 because your mentioned hibernate power consumption 4uA according to datasheet is for CC3200. For CC3200MOD is almost twice as big... So i need to correct my math as this:
CC3200MOD - $36.98 (www.ti.com/product/CC3200MOD/samplebuy - that's strange i think that i've seen price about $22...) still without antenna :-) . I can't compare volume prices because TI is not published yet and i didn't ask Vonger about Vocore volume price.
About antenna diversity - i'm not very familiar with this feature into deep - i thought that this is merely for AP's and not for stations. It probably need to add some LNA (??maybe??) so power consumption goes up. There may be some use case for this configuration, but IMHO very rare. Can you please provide some measurements with and without diversity antennas? (power consumption, range, data throughput, ...)
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« Reply #61 on: February 24, 2015, 04:28:58 04:28 »

ESP nodemcu - An open-source firmware and development kit that helps you to prototype your IOT product within a few Lua script lines - available here: http://nodemcu.com/index_en.html
source code here: https://github.com/nodemcu/nodemcu-firmware
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« Reply #62 on: February 24, 2015, 06:25:08 18:25 »

Hi,
There is a some good tutorials for starting with ESP8266 in this site:
http://randomnerdtutorials.com/getting-started-with-esp8266-wifi-transceiver-review/

and a good application:
http://randomnerdtutorials.com/esp8266-web-server/

An other site:
http://rayshobby.net/first-impression-on-the-esp8266-serial-to-wifi-module/

Best regards.
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« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2015, 06:02:43 18:02 »

Hi,
ESP8266 SDK reach V1.0.0 (Espressif willing to pay $ 200 to anyone who finds errors in SDK 1.0.0).
Check here (use google translate): http://esp8266.ru/esp8266-iot-sdk-v1-0-0-at-v0-22/

They publish also a very interesting article "Designing An Ultra Low Power Sensor Solution With ESP8266" here: https://github.com/EspressifSystems/low_power_voltage_measurement/wiki

Also if you want a more than decent solution running OpenWRT you can use A5-V11 (based on Ralink/MediaTek RT5350F, W9825G6EH-75 RAM (32 MB) RAM chip and 4 MB SPI ROM) here: http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/unbranded/a5-v11

The price is only $8.25 on AliExpress: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/LYNEW-Portable-Mini-Wireless-wifi-Router-3G-4G-Hotspot-Wifi-Hotspot-support-3G-USB-modems/32257312139.html

Hope helps,
-an
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 01:58:34 01:58 by an007_rld » Logged
iot
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« Reply #64 on: March 30, 2015, 03:45:23 03:45 »

I am very excited with the espressif wifi solution and tools for development.

I am sure that it will be a groundbreaking device in the IoT era. Currently, I am working in a project for home automation now using Ethernet, but in a second phase I will use the ESP8266.

If anyone wants to know about my project can visit the following link, here at sonsivri (http://www.sonsivri.to/forum/index.php?topic=59842.0)

Due to the importance of the ESP8266, I propose to have a dedicate thread for it. Ih that place, we can put anything related to it.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 03:48:16 03:48 by iot » Logged
Gallymimu
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« Reply #65 on: March 30, 2015, 04:03:32 04:03 »

I am very excited with the espressif wifi solution and tools for development.

I am sure that it will be a groundbreaking device in the IoT era. Currently, I am working in a project for home automation now using Ethernet, but in a second phase I will use the ESP8266.

If anyone wants to know about my project can visit the following link, here at sonsivri (http://www.sonsivri.to/forum/index.php?topic=59842.0)

Due to the importance of the ESP8266, I propose to have a dedicate thread for it. Ih that place, we can put anything related to it.

This is already a dedicated thread about the ESP8266 so are you just trying to increase your post count?
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« Reply #66 on: March 30, 2015, 04:14:57 04:14 »

Excuse me Gallyminu, but I am unable to find out a dedicated thread about ESP8266.

Doing some search in the site about ESP8266, you will find this post, another one in the hardware section, and some invitation requests. Nothing else.

By a dedicated thread I mean, a post where the only topic is related to the solution (not others solutions), all the links, documentation, tools, and sticky to the start. Just like the dedicated posts for some software tools.

About the post count, it is true that I am new to the site and I have a little posts, but I am trying to contribute a little in each one. If you any inconvenient with my posts, please send a direct message.
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« Reply #67 on: March 30, 2015, 05:11:54 05:11 »

Using Arduino IDE with ESP8266 ... http://www.arduinesp.com/
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« Reply #68 on: June 24, 2015, 05:21:11 05:21 »

IoT WiFi module comparison (including ESP8266, CC3000 and CC3200)
http://21stdigitalhome.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2015, 01:16:57 13:16 »

Unofficial Development Kit for Espressif ESP8266

All-In-One for Win32

http://programs74.ru/udkew-en.html
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« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2015, 12:11:14 00:11 »

I think that the best is to go with a raspberry Pi. It has a lot of power an you can use a cheap pc wifi card. And I think it has most of certifications, because it is sell here in Europe
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« Reply #71 on: July 10, 2015, 12:15:50 00:15 »

I think that the best is to go with a raspberry Pi. It has a lot of power an you can use a cheap pc wifi card. And I think it has most of certifications, because it is sell here in Europe
You’re comparing a 45€ solution against 2.1€.
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« Reply #72 on: July 10, 2015, 12:19:24 00:19 »

You’re comparing a 45€ solution against 2.1€.

But I'm saying in term of power and the low cost instead other solutions. A raspberry Pi can do almost a computer can do with ease instead of pic which will be impossible or cost a lot to develop. I mean for a low cost easy iot client.
Sorry, if this doesn't helps
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« Reply #73 on: July 10, 2015, 05:11:08 05:11 »

Sorry akacalo, but that sounds like totally bullshit to me. If we are talking about IoT world, then most of involved devices will be relative simple sensors or actors (and probably battery operated), where size and power consumption does matter. I've seen projects called IoT thermometer with RPi but IMHO only braindead can use 6x RPi only to measure temperature in his house... If You would - then use RPi as a SmartHome controller, but not as a sensor (even i prefer not centralized approach - for example like Souliss do).
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« Reply #74 on: July 10, 2015, 09:50:12 09:50 »

But I'm saying in term of power and the low cost instead other solutions. A raspberry Pi can do almost a computer can do with ease instead of pic which will be impossible or cost a lot to develop. I mean for a low cost easy iot client.

This might be an OK approach for someone who is just getting started in electronics and isn't willing to invest the time into doing it properly, or for a PoC on a short deadline, but beyond that no one is ever going to say "Well this $2 module would work well but what I would really like is if it could be much more complex, 8 times the size, 20 times the price, use a heap more power and need a bunch of extra software to function.". If you need the computing power of a RPi, then an 8266 was never even in your sights, if you can use an 8266 then a RPi would be ridiculous.
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« Reply #75 on: July 14, 2015, 05:09:45 05:09 »

New kid on the block - http://hackaday.com/2015/07/13/new-part-day-the-esp8266-killer/ or http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/EMW3165-p-2488.html?cPath=19_20 - STM32F2/4 CPU onboard, lot of flash/RAM/peripherals, $7.95 ...
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« Reply #76 on: July 14, 2015, 08:49:21 08:49 »

New kid on the block - http://hackaday.com/2015/07/13/new-part-day-the-esp8266-killer/ or http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/EMW3165-p-2488.html?cPath=19_20 - STM32F2/4 CPU onboard, lot of flash/RAM/peripherals, $7.95 ...

I saw this yesterday on hackaday and it is really amazing how do they achieve such prices.
A quick result puts STM32F411CE at 3-5$ with 10k+ units. On top of this comes the transceiver, FCC, PCB design and PCBA, RF tuning and RF shield.
Since that is not enough to make it work, you will also need a to invest in the development of a firmware and an SDK for developers.
Add to it profit margin for seeed and explain to me how is it sold at 7.5$.
 
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« Reply #77 on: July 14, 2015, 09:06:41 09:06 »

Anyone can buy the ESP8266 on Aliexpress for $2.3 USD and Seeed sells it for $7.5 USD. That's almost 70% profit margin for Seeed.
Now imagine the real cost of the EMW3165. I'll wait for some days until it appears on Ali or eBay.
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« Reply #78 on: July 14, 2015, 09:12:19 09:12 »

Anyone can buy the ESP8266 on Aliexpress for $2.3 USD and Seeed sells it for $7.5 USD. That's almost 70% profit margin for Seeed.
Now imagine the real cost of the EMW3165. I'll wait for some days until it appears on Ali or eBay.
That is exactly my question, how is it even possible to reach such low cost
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« Reply #79 on: July 24, 2015, 05:46:36 17:46 »

You can typically find chips from large manufacturers on AliExpress/Alibaba in single quantities for less than the 10k price on Digikey or similar.

How that works is anyone's guess. Common theories are that the factories sell failed batches to grey market venders at bargain basement prices. A lot of these failed chips just fail in small ways like timings being out of spec, or tolerances a little bit off. Not necessarily something you'd ever notice.


Something like that is probably happening with the EMW3165s. The manufacturer might have locked in a secret deal for bad lots for literal pennies.
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« Reply #80 on: July 26, 2015, 08:46:49 08:46 »

Hi All
Sure you can profit from this design:
the ESP8266 - cost 1.5$ @10000
the Micro cost the same about 1.5 $ @10000
in a smart design the designer use the micro memory  as the memory for the ESP8266 and save external memory
in the same way he can you a single crystal for both the memory and ESP8266 there for save on crystal cost
Antenna if not printed cost 0.05 $
PCB cost 0.2 $ and metal cover cost 0.3$ ,FCC test cost 0.2$ ,labor work cost 0.2$ ,Misalliance 0.05 $
Now do the math - 4.00$ @10000
Even if I was a bit wrong and the final cost reach  4.5$ you can still profit from this type of design

For the first 10K unit the profit will be marginal but for the next beach it will increase.

All the best
Bobi
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« Reply #81 on: August 09, 2015, 03:08:30 15:08 »

now ESP8266 support mesh (esp_iot_sdk_v1.2.0_mesh_v0.0.6_15_07_03); still experimental but a big step forward.
Check here: http://espressif.com/new-sdk-release/

-an
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« Reply #82 on: October 11, 2015, 08:26:57 20:26 »

a nice site with projects: http://www.esp8266-projects.com.
Enjoy!

Best Regards,
-an
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« Reply #83 on: January 31, 2016, 01:34:27 13:34 »

And another new kid on the block - Nufront NL6621 http://www.nl6621.net/ , http://www.nufront.com/index.php/portal/page/index/id/366.html . Modules already available on ebay...
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« Reply #84 on: July 13, 2016, 01:01:07 01:01 »

Espressif combine now an ESP8266 with an 1Mbyte flash and get a new small IC call-it ESP8285.
The volume price according to a forum is around $1.1 and you need around just a few components.

Here is the data sheet: http://espressif.com/sites/default/files/documentation/0a-esp8285_datasheet_en_0.pdf
and 2 modules build with this IC:
here: http://en.ai-thinker.com/html/2016/ESP_85_Series_0404/7.html
and
here: https://www.itead.cc/psf-a85.html

The wiki page for the second module is here: http://wiki.iteadstudio.com/PSF-A85

Hope helps,
-an
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« Reply #85 on: September 06, 2016, 11:15:51 11:15 »

ESP32 (WiFi + BLE) Modules are now available for sale from Seeed

240 MHz dual core Tensilica LX6 microcontroller with 600 DMIPS
Integrated 520 KB SRAM
Integrated 802.11BGN HT40 Wi-Fi transceiver, baseband, stack and LWIP
Integrated dual mode Bluetooth (classic and BLE)
16 MByte flash
2.2V to 3.6V operating voltage
-40°C to +125°C operating temperature
On-board PCB antenna / IPEX connector for external antenna

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« Reply #86 on: September 06, 2016, 11:36:17 11:36 »

... and best of all - its only $6.95 ...
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« Reply #87 on: September 06, 2016, 11:52:15 11:52 »

... and best of all - its only $6.95 ...

It will probably be even cheaper from Aliexpress suppliers once the chip becomes widely available.
The chip itself is 2.85 USD.
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« Reply #88 on: September 06, 2016, 04:25:47 16:25 »

Quite a lot of performance to offer but I wonder about the documentation. ESP8266 had some problems in this area and it took a big community effort to get those information's.
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