Opinion - Oscilloscope : Digital vs Analog

[iphone]

Hi guys.

Need you opinion n comments on the PRO n Contra about Digital Oscilloscope vs Analog Oscilloscope.

I need to buy one unit for my project n my budget around RM6k (Malaysian currency) or USD1.5k total package.

So anyone can recommend to me what brands and specs should be great.

I already do some window shopping on this matter but forgot the brand name ( I will update later) but it's digital with data output to PC (USB) n 200Mhz, 2 channel.

Hope can get some guidedance before buy it. Hope I make a good decision n not regret later ( USD1.5k is too much for me).

Thanks in advance.

[solutions]

What are you planning to do with it? It's all about mission profile as far as pros vs cons of analog/digital

[iphone]

I'm doing some electronic gadget.

The gadget will cut the AC supply at zero crossing. I will use the oscilloscope to know  and to calculate time for PIC to cut off the AC supply.

This gadget not need the high end oscilloscope, but I have given budget to buy oscilloscope so I need to buy good oscilloscope not only for this project but for future project too. Like one stone kill 2 birds.


I need some medium - pro version of oscilloscope that suit the budget of USD1.5k.

So any suggestion  for the oscilloscope for that budget ?  Digital vs Analog ?

tq

[mylogin]

@1.5KUSD you can buy Agilent, Tektronics 100MHz digital scope.  they are much better than Analog scope for slow events.  (note: the cheap models can store only 10k points)  if you need deep memory (such as for MCU, serial comm. asyn. digital signals) try "RIGOL"  they are much cheaper and good quality.  they all come with extra functions such as FFT, frequency counter, RMS voltage ...etc.,

It is difficult to use the analog scope in slow or non-repeat signal events. unless you have analog-storage,  I own 5 analog scope, but nowadays I use Digital scope with deep memory most of time .

[solutions]

Saelig has a  pretty nice set of discounts right now.  You can get a combo logic analyzer/scope and have enough left in your budget for an additional analog scope  See the banner here http://www.saelig.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SOS&Category_Code=MFR00068&offset=12 or the latest Elektor magazine.

[LabVIEWguru]

Hey Iphone - I'm playing with Direct Digital Synthesis, and there is a very simple "zero crossing circuit" using an opamp and a couple resistors. Output is a square wave as input crosses "0"

Perhaps this, tied to an interrupt or port pin would be faster than trying to time a zero crossing?

http://freecircuitdiagram.com/2008/09/02/single-supply-zero-crossing-detector/

I purchased my Tektronix 100 Mhz Digital Storage Oscilloscope many years ago, and wouldn't trade it for anything. I see them on Ebay now (older CRT types) for almost nothing. Make sure you get a nice set of probes. They can be expensive. I just bought a set a year or so ago from Ebay, about $40.00 

[oldvan]

Tektronix 2440 Digital here, I love it but lust for a modern LCD version some day. 

Digital is a lifesaver for capturing non-repetitive events.

[iphone]

Hey Iphone - I'm playing with Direct Digital Synthesis, and there is a very simple "zero crossing circuit" using an opamp and a couple resistors. Output is a square wave as input crosses "0"

Perhaps this, tied to an interrupt or port pin would be faster than trying to time a zero crossing?

http://freecircuitdiagram.com/2008/09/02/single-supply-zero-crossing-detector/

I purchased my Tektronix 100 Mhz Digital Storage Oscilloscope many years ago, and wouldn't trade it for anything. I see them on Ebay now (older CRT types) for almost nothing. Make sure you get a nice set of probes. They can be expensive. I just bought a set a year or so ago from Ebay, about $40.00  

Actually I plan to use 2 diode n 1 resister after transformer and PIC detect OV after diode (once it voltage < diode forward voltage) and calculate (delay) before AC reach the real 0 crossing. So I just use 2 components.

In my design (commercial product), I will try use smallest no component and to make low cost and low complicity to archive better cost saving.

Anyway, thanks to all friends.

[solutions]

You do realize that you can do AC zero cross with just a SINGLE current limiting resistor attached to a GPIO pin on the PIC?  The ESD diodes in the PIC will clamp the voltage on both the positive and the negative side of the waveform.  From there, you can easily figure out the zero crosses by timing the one/zero logic transitions of the positive half sines.  There's a Microchip app note about that one somewhere.  It's non-isolated, but since you are on the secondary of the transformer, that probably no longer is an issue for you.

[iphone]

You do realize that you can do AC zero cross with just a SINGLE current limiting resistor attached to a GPIO pin on the PIC?  The ESD diodes in the PIC will clamp the voltage on both the positive and the negative side of the waveform.  From there, you can easily figure out the zero crosses by timing the one/zero logic transitions of the positive half sines.  There's a Microchip app note about that one somewhere.  It's non-isolated, but since you are on the secondary of the transformer, that probably no longer is an issue for you.

Solutions, thanks for tips. Great tip.

I plan to use PIC12Fxxx ((8 pin) for my project and maybe your tip can be implement in PIC12Fxxx ( I just need to check datasheet).

Offtopic: I need to write  using assembly language as the PIC12Fxxx has small flash. So can anyone suggest me the right software to learn ( I mean using graphic/icon method like flowcode but flowcode generate C language but I need software which can generate assembly language straight away. Long time ago, I remember in this forum, there is software like that but I forgot the name. Any help will be appreciate.)

Thanks again.

[optikon]

You are better off with a digital scope..

Digital PRO - Capture one shot events.
Digital PRO - memory storage - better "post processing" - display etc..
Digital PRO - color screens, looks good, less bulky
Digital PRO - Removable storage - thumb drive, disk, CD or something to write a screen capture.. very nice.

Digital CON - more expensive compared to similar performing analog

I own a Rigol and Tek digital as well as numerous analog and I have to say there is nothing I do that cant be done with the digital scope.
I just can bear to throw out the analog scopes though. 

[Old_but_Alive]

I bought a DSO for $500 a few months ago, and am very happy with it.

after googling, some of the comments seem to prefer rigol units, but i still bought it.

The chinese supplier has been very helpful and responsive.

The only issue is that the software which runs on a PC is XP, not win7.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Uni-trend-UTD2102CEL-1GS-s-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-/290495777806?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item43a2e5cc0e

p.s. pickit2, dont flame me, its not an advert, just my experience


Mike

[SBW]

A week late, but:
Digital CON: digital scopes rarely have an anti-alias filter which tracks the timebase setting.  Because of this, high frequency signals will look like a low frequency signal if you use a slow timebase setting.  You can end up chasing a non-existent kHz oscillation that is actually MHz pickup if you forget to change the timebase to verify that the displayed signal is the fundamental and not an alias.

Also, because they are responding to the full scope bandwidth no matter what the timebase setting, you have more noise than if the input were filtered.  This also applies to analog scopes, but they often have lower noise levels to begin with, so it is less of an issue.  (For really weak low-frequency signals, the old 7a22 analog plug-in is great, with its 10 microvolt/division sensitivity, differential input, offset adjustment, and selectable filtering.)

But those more more things to be aware of than reasons to go analog.  I have Tek 7000 series analog, HP 54512b (monochrome) digital, and HP 83480a/83483a 20 GHz sampling scopes on my bench, and I can not remember the last time I turned the analog scope on.  If I need the 7a22, I'd probably connect the 'signal out' from that scope to my digital scope to view it.

There is a tremendous difference in utility between monochromatic and color digital scopes.  This is more than just looking pretty: it is a real time and confusion saver to color code your probes to match the trace colors.  With a monochromatic scope, you are always wondering which trace corresponds to which input.  You can figure it out by disconnecting the probe from the circuit, or from the scope, or by toggling the trace off and on, or by changing the offset, but it is so nice to advance beyond that.

[Triodethom]

I bought a DSO for $500 a few months ago, and am very happy with it.

after googling, some of the comments seem to prefer rigol units, but i still bought it.

The chinese supplier has been very helpful and responsive.

The only issue is that the software which runs on a PC is XP, not win7.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Uni-trend-UTD2102CEL-1GS-s-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-/290495777806?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item43a2e5cc0e

p.s. pickit2, dont flame me, its not an advert, just my experience


Mike

Are you using it for mainly audio and am band work ?
 

[BharatSujanani]

We have also purchased Digital storage oscilloscope only in 620US$ from india.

Company website is "http://www.falconindia.biz/"

Model is "DSO-050C5: 50 MHz 500 MS/s with FFT Colour Digital Storage Oscilloscope"
It is working good, with lcd screen and 2 channel with storage.

[VolkD]

Comparison of digital and analog Sun oscilloscope can be a little misguided, because these are two completely different instrument. The same is the name and the fact that both can display signal format. After a few analog oscilloscope can be set is better because the signal current track changes. In digital, we must wait to re-implement the FFT routines.
On the other hand, has a digital oscilloscope memory effect that is present in analog oscilloscopes are exceptional.
I have bought a digital oscilloscope to the fair in Friederichshafen for € 330 mark Rigol DS1102DE. Later purchased another probe for logic analyzer digital signals.
I think it was a good buy.

[Danish]

My recommendations:

Entry level analog: Tektronix 2225.

High End analog: Tektronix 2465B.

All round digital: HP/Agilent 54600 series.

I need both analog and digital scopes for my work. Each with its strengths and weaknesses.

[PICker]

Virtins DSO are very good entry level devices:
http://www.virtins.com/VT-DSO-2820.shtml
Cheers

[PM3295]

I am also in the camp of using both analog and digital scopes. Apart from the HP and Tek analog scopes recommended here by others, there are many good analog scopes from Hitachi, Iwatsu, etc. that can often be picked up for next to nothing on eBay. I managed to get a 400 MHz analog Iwatsu readout scope for only $150 a year ago. Nobody else was even bidding on this at the time.

[zac]

I still have a Tektronix 2246 100 mhz analog scope with readouts from the late 1980s that I occasionally use, but I would not buy an analog scope now because the DSO/DPO's can do everything the analog scope can. 

The Rigol models are probably the best value:

http://www.batronix.com/shop/rigol/MSO1000Z.html

http://www.batronix.com/shop/rigol/MSO2000A.html

There is a modification available to enable additional functions/higher bandwidth on some rigol models:

http://freneticrapport.blogspot.com/2013/07/raspberry-pi-rigol-ds2072-200mhz.html

Rigol also had a scope that interfaced with a PC over USB that was pretty good, but they stopped supporting it and the software is stuck only working properly with window XP.  You may be able to find a good deal on ebay: 

http://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-VS5062D.html

Agilent/Keysight also has a similar (but still supported) usb scope that works very well:

http://www.keysight.com/en/pd-1369621-pn-U2701A/usb-modular-oscilloscope-100-mhz?cc=US&lc=eng

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Agilent-HP-U2701A-USB-Modular-Oscilloscope-IVI-Instrument-Drivers-100-MHz-/151441141978?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item23429870da

I prefer using the larger higher solution display on a PC than the smaller low res (typically 800x480) displays found on most low to medium priced scopes. 

Another possibility is the older but still very capable Tekronix DPO's such as the TDS754D which can be occasionally found on ebay for about $1000 in good shape. 

http://www.testequipmenthq.com/datasheets/TEKTRONIX-TDS754D-Datasheet.pdf

One downside to older equipment like this is no usb port so data can only be transferred by gpib or floppy disk. 

[sohel]

Dear all.

i am planning to buy RIGOL MSO1104Z for digital power electronics . please share your experience which will help me to decide.

Regard's
 

[dezso]

Excellent subject my friends, I my self are planing to get the RIGOL MSO1074Z, unfortunately the CAD$ price is way down at the moment, might just need to suck it up.
Read many good review for the 1054Z and 1074Z, my current HP16500C w/16532A&16510B costed me 1000's 10 years ago and it's still a 50lb piece of junk.
Anyone have used one of the upgrade hack's for the 1054 or the 1074, does it still works ?

Back to your question, read this article from PICOTech , I myself never been a big fan of Analog scopes, most cheap low bandwidth scopes for illustration purpose only, hard to measure anything, triggering is a pain.
As for the MSO1104Z, great futures, do you really need 8/16ch LA, my current machine have 32CH 1GHz input, I don't remember ever using more than 4 channel, maybe 5 at max.





dezso:

[sohel]

Thanks,

I will order DS1054Z when china come back from there holiday.

[dezso]

Where are you planing to order it from?

dezso:

[sohel]

"Where are you planing to order it from?"

this is the main problem. china is near by me and shipping cost will be low compared to USA.  but afraid about original or clone.

[dezso]

I just cant make a decision to buy the DS1054 or DS1074 if anyone could confirm that really the only difference between the 50-70-100MHz models is in the software that would make it a lot easier to decide.
Don't want to buy the 50MHz juts incase the ADC aren't up to the task of a 100MHz, I can see many people did hack on them and aper to be a 100MHz scope but it's real can deal with the 100MHz signal?


dezso:

[dezso]

DS1074Z on the way, thats the only thing I can find on stock in North America, no one have DS1054Z in stock, 3-5 week backorder, someone was hinting for me that the upgrade hack will be fixed on the next hardware release/..

 

[Vineyards]

I don't like Rigol's policy of selling exactly the same stuff as different products. There are also a few firmware related quirks with my Rigol. However, it seems to be a better comprimise between quality and price. Still, they should offer the maximum bandwidth and features in a single product without playing these marketing games. Intel does the same thing too.

[Gallymimu]

I don't like Rigol's policy of selling exactly the same stuff as different products. There are also a few firmware related quirks with my Rigol. However, it seems to be a better comprimise between quality and price. Still, they should offer the maximum bandwidth and features in a single product without playing these marketing games. Intel does the same thing too.

Why shouldn't they do that?  Should they have to charge $5000 for every scope since they can't get to the manufacturing volume necessary to sell at a lower price.  That's a much dumber idea.

What they (and intel does) is a great and proven method of making money AND servicing the customers on the low end with lower prices.  It's all about making the product available to as many customers as possible.

[Vineyards]

If your point is limited to making money then you are right. Let's help these companies make money. Let's pay hundreds of dollars more on a product which is identical to the lesser version.

[sarah90]

I think the firmware imposed bandwidth limitations are difficult to explain to customers. Why do we have to pay more for exactly the same hardware?

Software options is a completely different thing. These have required additional work and sometimes licenses. So an extra charge is ok. However because they are selling not as much of these options, prices tend to get out of hand. Software options can easily exceed the price of the base scope hardware. And that feels bad in its own right.

[Vineyards]

I understand companies need to sell their products and they are legally entitled to changing, tweaking their products as long as they comply with the established standards.
There are actually no legal objections to that. I just wanted to say that I don't like this particular marketing strategy. It makes you feel cheated.

I will take one more step and say; I also don't like the platform sharing strategies in the automative industry either. I don't want to buy a Volvo and drive a Ford or to buy a Mercedes equipped with a Fiat engine. Supposedly, we have cheaper cars this way (which I don't believe). Actually what is happening behind the scenes is that every producer is in touch with one other and no one tries to revolutionize the market; they just want to share the spoils together by collectively controlling the prices and playing these marketing games. This way, we no longer have cars that have a character along with a set of pros and cons. All cars in a certain segment are almost the same. They are equally cheap, equally innovative, equally expensive. As the World is becoming a global village, all the countries in the World are becoming similar. People are becoming similar, they all share the same virtual social platform.

[fantomex]

I just cant make a decision to buy the DS1054 or DS1074 if anyone could confirm that really the only difference between the 50-70-100MHz models is in the software that would make it a lot easier to decide.
Don't want to buy the 50MHz juts incase the ADC aren't up to the task of a 100MHz, I can see many people did hack on them and aper to be a 100MHz scope but it's real can deal with the 100MHz signal?

I don't want to engage in the good/bad debate of Rigol's strategy but I can confirm the DS1054Z functions just like a 1104 after entering a single key obtained from a shady website. Yes, it is actually 100MHz. The bundled software is utter garbage, crashes all the time and screen updates are incredibly slow. Also the fan 50mm is pretty damn noisy, so I plan on replacing it. Other than that, no complaints. The extra niceties like RS232 decoding are really great as well. It's insanely good value for money, but with a $1500 budget I'd probably look a little further.

[dezso]

Got my DS1074Z today, the keygen worked just fine, definitely it's small unit, will take some time to get used to it.
dezso:

[fantomex]

May also want to find if you already have the latest firmware which it said to fix a jitter issue and a problem with ac coupling.

[pickit2]

I bought a DSO for $500 a few months ago, and am very happy with it.

after googling, some of the comments seem to prefer rigol units, but i still bought it.

The chinese supplier has been very helpful and responsive.

The only issue is that the software which runs on a PC is XP, not win7.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Uni-trend-UTD2102CEL-1GS-s-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-/290495777806?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item43a2e5cc0e

p.s. pickit2, dont flame me, its not an advert, just my experience


Mike

try this for your UTD2102CEL runs in win7 & 8.1
http://www.uni-trend.com/en/product/2014_0716_623.html

[Droneman1982]

I use this: Fluke Combiscope PM 3390B (200 MHz)

It contains both a analog and digital oscilloscope on a classical CRT

I love it <3

[bigtoy]

I use this: Fluke Combiscope PM 3390B (200 MHz)

It contains both a analog and digital oscilloscope on a classical CRT

I love it <3

I used to use one of these, many years ago. I agree, it was a great tool, and my favourite at the time. Getting a bit long in the tooth now, but then again, so is my backup Tek analog scope, and it still works too.

[zac]

Why shouldn't they do that?  Should they have to charge $5000 for every scope since they can't get to the manufacturing volume necessary to sell at a lower price.  That's a much dumber idea.

Tektronix and agilent/keysight are steadily losing market share, in large part because their lower end scope offering are not competitive.  They intentionally crippled them (by shortening memory depth) to protect their higher end products which I think is pretty despicable.  For example:

http://www.tequipment.net/agilent/rigol-ds1052e-vs-tektronix-tbs1052b-vs-a/

Tektronix has been my favorite oscilloscope for decades, but my scope purchase will probably be a rigol.  I  wish rigol would increase their screen resolution to higher than 800x480 or support a higher res external display.  The 800x480 display is only marginally higher than the 640x480 found on 15+ year old tektronix scopes like the 754, 620 or 540 series. 

What they (and intel does) is a great and proven method of making money AND servicing the customers on the low end with lower prices.  It's all about making the product available to as many customers as possible.

That is an interesting question.  Judging by intel's historical behavior, I suspect cpu prices would have come down much  more slowly and improvements also come more slowly had their principal competitor AMD not existed or had competitive products.  I remember back to the 386 and 486 days in the early to mid 1990s when AMD consistently forced prices down with better products such as higher clockrates (40 mhz amd 386 compared to 33 mhz intel, 120 mhz 486 compared to 33 and later 50 mhz intel, etc.).  AMD's athlon offerings in the late 1990 to mid 2000s surpassed intel's offering and forced Intel to innovate with their much improved Core products. 

While AMD's current offerings are significantly inferior to intel's, they are still competitive enough to keep intel prices down.  For example, intel's top-of-the-line desktop cpu, the 4 ghz 4790K, is only about $330, drastically lower than their top end products only a few years earlier. 

[naserturk]

Hello 
I think every one who works on electronic design need both analog and digital oscilloscope
My suggestion buy old analog tektronix from ebay . you can find some really professional high frequency tektronix osc in really god condition from ebay for good price
 
and buy new digital from Rigol like DS1052E for about 400$ or GWinstek from 800$ or siglent
but if you have enough money you should look at Tektronix , Agilent (hp) , Hameg or at least top models of GWinstek about $4300

with best regards
NaserTurk 

[towlerg]

For example, intel's top-of-the-line desktop cpu, the 4 ghz 4790K, is only about $330, drastically lower than their top end products only a few years earlier. 

Absolutely. Who remembers the price of the Xenon when it was first released? the number was so big my brain blanked it.

George

[GroundPlaneLoop]

I have both. Some rigols DS1102, they are good for basic work.
Mainly the FFT is nice for some application when you doesnt have an spectral analyser. With a noise generator it can be used for example for tuning LC filters.

But for some demonstrations, a good old analog Tek is unbeatable. Lissajous figures on lower end DSOs are terrible.

[Elmer]

My suggestion buy old analog tektronix from ebay . you can find some really professional high frequency tektronix osc in really god condition from ebay for good price

Any recommendations for cheaply eBay-available analog Tek scopes for testing ~160MHz radio? I have the 100MHz upgraded DS1054Z that usually fills most of my needs, so all I need it for is HF filter/amp tweaking, and I don't really want to spend any real money on it..