Opinion - Oscilloscope : Digital vs Analog

[dezso]

I just cant make a decision to buy the DS1054 or DS1074 if anyone could confirm that really the only difference between the 50-70-100MHz models is in the software that would make it a lot easier to decide.
Don't want to buy the 50MHz juts incase the ADC aren't up to the task of a 100MHz, I can see many people did hack on them and aper to be a 100MHz scope but it's real can deal with the 100MHz signal?


dezso:

[dezso]

DS1074Z on the way, thats the only thing I can find on stock in North America, no one have DS1054Z in stock, 3-5 week backorder, someone was hinting for me that the upgrade hack will be fixed on the next hardware release/..

 

[Vineyards]

I don't like Rigol's policy of selling exactly the same stuff as different products. There are also a few firmware related quirks with my Rigol. However, it seems to be a better comprimise between quality and price. Still, they should offer the maximum bandwidth and features in a single product without playing these marketing games. Intel does the same thing too.

[Gallymimu]

I don't like Rigol's policy of selling exactly the same stuff as different products. There are also a few firmware related quirks with my Rigol. However, it seems to be a better comprimise between quality and price. Still, they should offer the maximum bandwidth and features in a single product without playing these marketing games. Intel does the same thing too.

Why shouldn't they do that?  Should they have to charge $5000 for every scope since they can't get to the manufacturing volume necessary to sell at a lower price.  That's a much dumber idea.

What they (and intel does) is a great and proven method of making money AND servicing the customers on the low end with lower prices.  It's all about making the product available to as many customers as possible.

[Vineyards]

If your point is limited to making money then you are right. Let's help these companies make money. Let's pay hundreds of dollars more on a product which is identical to the lesser version.

[sarah90]

I think the firmware imposed bandwidth limitations are difficult to explain to customers. Why do we have to pay more for exactly the same hardware?

Software options is a completely different thing. These have required additional work and sometimes licenses. So an extra charge is ok. However because they are selling not as much of these options, prices tend to get out of hand. Software options can easily exceed the price of the base scope hardware. And that feels bad in its own right.

[Vineyards]

I understand companies need to sell their products and they are legally entitled to changing, tweaking their products as long as they comply with the established standards.
There are actually no legal objections to that. I just wanted to say that I don't like this particular marketing strategy. It makes you feel cheated.

I will take one more step and say; I also don't like the platform sharing strategies in the automative industry either. I don't want to buy a Volvo and drive a Ford or to buy a Mercedes equipped with a Fiat engine. Supposedly, we have cheaper cars this way (which I don't believe). Actually what is happening behind the scenes is that every producer is in touch with one other and no one tries to revolutionize the market; they just want to share the spoils together by collectively controlling the prices and playing these marketing games. This way, we no longer have cars that have a character along with a set of pros and cons. All cars in a certain segment are almost the same. They are equally cheap, equally innovative, equally expensive. As the World is becoming a global village, all the countries in the World are becoming similar. People are becoming similar, they all share the same virtual social platform.

[fantomex]

I just cant make a decision to buy the DS1054 or DS1074 if anyone could confirm that really the only difference between the 50-70-100MHz models is in the software that would make it a lot easier to decide.
Don't want to buy the 50MHz juts incase the ADC aren't up to the task of a 100MHz, I can see many people did hack on them and aper to be a 100MHz scope but it's real can deal with the 100MHz signal?

I don't want to engage in the good/bad debate of Rigol's strategy but I can confirm the DS1054Z functions just like a 1104 after entering a single key obtained from a shady website. Yes, it is actually 100MHz. The bundled software is utter garbage, crashes all the time and screen updates are incredibly slow. Also the fan 50mm is pretty damn noisy, so I plan on replacing it. Other than that, no complaints. The extra niceties like RS232 decoding are really great as well. It's insanely good value for money, but with a $1500 budget I'd probably look a little further.

[dezso]

Got my DS1074Z today, the keygen worked just fine, definitely it's small unit, will take some time to get used to it.
dezso:

[fantomex]

May also want to find if you already have the latest firmware which it said to fix a jitter issue and a problem with ac coupling.

[pickit2]

I bought a DSO for $500 a few months ago, and am very happy with it.

after googling, some of the comments seem to prefer rigol units, but i still bought it.

The chinese supplier has been very helpful and responsive.

The only issue is that the software which runs on a PC is XP, not win7.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Uni-trend-UTD2102CEL-1GS-s-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-/290495777806?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item43a2e5cc0e

p.s. pickit2, dont flame me, its not an advert, just my experience


Mike

try this for your UTD2102CEL runs in win7 & 8.1
http://www.uni-trend.com/en/product/2014_0716_623.html

[Droneman1982]

I use this: Fluke Combiscope PM 3390B (200 MHz)

It contains both a analog and digital oscilloscope on a classical CRT

I love it <3

[bigtoy]

I use this: Fluke Combiscope PM 3390B (200 MHz)

It contains both a analog and digital oscilloscope on a classical CRT

I love it <3

I used to use one of these, many years ago. I agree, it was a great tool, and my favourite at the time. Getting a bit long in the tooth now, but then again, so is my backup Tek analog scope, and it still works too.

[zac]

Why shouldn't they do that?  Should they have to charge $5000 for every scope since they can't get to the manufacturing volume necessary to sell at a lower price.  That's a much dumber idea.

Tektronix and agilent/keysight are steadily losing market share, in large part because their lower end scope offering are not competitive.  They intentionally crippled them (by shortening memory depth) to protect their higher end products which I think is pretty despicable.  For example:

http://www.tequipment.net/agilent/rigol-ds1052e-vs-tektronix-tbs1052b-vs-a/

Tektronix has been my favorite oscilloscope for decades, but my scope purchase will probably be a rigol.  I  wish rigol would increase their screen resolution to higher than 800x480 or support a higher res external display.  The 800x480 display is only marginally higher than the 640x480 found on 15+ year old tektronix scopes like the 754, 620 or 540 series. 

What they (and intel does) is a great and proven method of making money AND servicing the customers on the low end with lower prices.  It's all about making the product available to as many customers as possible.

That is an interesting question.  Judging by intel's historical behavior, I suspect cpu prices would have come down much  more slowly and improvements also come more slowly had their principal competitor AMD not existed or had competitive products.  I remember back to the 386 and 486 days in the early to mid 1990s when AMD consistently forced prices down with better products such as higher clockrates (40 mhz amd 386 compared to 33 mhz intel, 120 mhz 486 compared to 33 and later 50 mhz intel, etc.).  AMD's athlon offerings in the late 1990 to mid 2000s surpassed intel's offering and forced Intel to innovate with their much improved Core products. 

While AMD's current offerings are significantly inferior to intel's, they are still competitive enough to keep intel prices down.  For example, intel's top-of-the-line desktop cpu, the 4 ghz 4790K, is only about $330, drastically lower than their top end products only a few years earlier. 

[naserturk]

Hello 
I think every one who works on electronic design need both analog and digital oscilloscope
My suggestion buy old analog tektronix from ebay . you can find some really professional high frequency tektronix osc in really god condition from ebay for good price
 
and buy new digital from Rigol like DS1052E for about 400$ or GWinstek from 800$ or siglent
but if you have enough money you should look at Tektronix , Agilent (hp) , Hameg or at least top models of GWinstek about $4300

with best regards
NaserTurk 

[towlerg]

For example, intel's top-of-the-line desktop cpu, the 4 ghz 4790K, is only about $330, drastically lower than their top end products only a few years earlier. 

Absolutely. Who remembers the price of the Xenon when it was first released? the number was so big my brain blanked it.

George

[GroundPlaneLoop]

I have both. Some rigols DS1102, they are good for basic work.
Mainly the FFT is nice for some application when you doesnt have an spectral analyser. With a noise generator it can be used for example for tuning LC filters.

But for some demonstrations, a good old analog Tek is unbeatable. Lissajous figures on lower end DSOs are terrible.

[Elmer]

My suggestion buy old analog tektronix from ebay . you can find some really professional high frequency tektronix osc in really god condition from ebay for good price

Any recommendations for cheaply eBay-available analog Tek scopes for testing ~160MHz radio? I have the 100MHz upgraded DS1054Z that usually fills most of my needs, so all I need it for is HF filter/amp tweaking, and I don't really want to spend any real money on it..