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Author Topic: Finding the Flyback transformer manufacturer  (Read 1740 times)
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MAXPAYNE
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« on: January 18, 2015, 06:21:06 06:21 »

I would like to identify the manufacturer of this transformer. I never saw this logo...

Googling with the number written on the top didnt help me.

Maybe you guys know the manufacturer.

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Gallymimu
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2015, 06:13:47 18:13 »

Good luck with this.  Transformers are one of those things are are often non-standard and are custom or application specific.  I've had VERY bad luck reverse engineering transformers from their markings over the years. 

You might have best luck tearing it apart.  I know that's not the answer you were looking for.
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MAXPAYNE
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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2015, 06:16:41 18:16 »

Good luck with this.  Transformers are one of those things are are often non-standard and are custom or application specific.  I've had VERY bad luck reverse engineering transformers from their markings over the years. 

You might have best luck tearing it apart.  I know that's not the answer you were looking for.

Ya. I know. Maybe the logo will lead me to the manufacturer from where I can get my all answer... Sad
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pickit2
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2015, 10:52:43 22:52 »

Max what is your expected outcome of this exercise?
to repair a bit of kit or to copy it?

as always a bit shy on why the question.
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2015, 01:29:35 01:29 »

Max:

Do you want 1 or 100? The reason I ask is that we needed 25 transformers for a project. A gent I worked with sent the non-functional sample to a company in China and they built us 25 "samples" for something like $6.00 USD each and quoted us $2.25 USD each for a 1000.

We used the samples and purchasing reportedly told them the project was cancelled. Just a thought. If you only need one it would be cost prohibitive.
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Gallymimu
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2015, 04:32:07 04:32 »

Max:

Do you want 1 or 100? The reason I ask is that we needed 25 transformers for a project. A gent I worked with sent the non-functional sample to a company in China and they built us 25 "samples" for something like $6.00 USD each and quoted us $2.25 USD each for a 1000.

We used the samples and purchasing reportedly told them the project was cancelled. Just a thought. If you only need one it would be cost prohibitive.

Do you happen to recall the company in china you used?  I could really use a cheap source for transformers like this!

Posted on: January 19, 2015, 04:29:12 04:29 - Automerged

Ya. I know. Maybe the logo will lead me to the manufacturer from where I can get my all answer... Sad

this might be silly, but did you try cropping the logo out and doing a good image search?  Dunno if it would turn anything up.
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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2015, 06:35:43 06:35 »

I imagine you might already know this, but the "ER14.5" written on that transformer is a standard core/bobbin size.  Google it and you'll find multiple manufacturers of the ferrite & bobbin. However, pretty much guaranteed it's a custom winding on it, to Prong's specifications. That would be pretty typical. That red logo you've circled would likely be the company that wound it, and unfortunately there are a zillion companies that'll wind magnetics. I'd guess the winding company (if you found them) would be even less likely than Prong to hand over the winding details.

Looking at the datasheet for the Power Integrations TNY276 offline switcher chip (easy google search) will tell you a lot about what kind of transformer it needs.
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MAXPAYNE
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2015, 06:59:01 06:59 »

Max what is your expected outcome of this exercise?
to repair a bit of kit or to copy it?

as always a bit shy on why the question.
Max:

Do you want 1 or 100? The reason I ask is that we needed 25 transformers for a project. A gent I worked with sent the non-functional sample to a company in China and they built us 25 "samples" for something like $6.00 USD each and quoted us $2.25 USD each for a 1000.

We used the samples and purchasing reportedly told them the project was cancelled. Just a thought. If you only need one it would be cost prohibitive.

I need the manufacturer because I did contact couple of Chinese companies and none of them was able to provide me such compact transformer. My special need is to fit the circuit within 0.8 inch and I am getting stuck due to the transformer height. Maybe they used RM core instead of EE.

Do you happen to recall the company in china you used?  I could really use a cheap source for transformers like this!

Posted on: January 19, 2015, 04:29:12 04:29 - Automerged


this might be silly, but did you try cropping the logo out and doing a good image search?  Dunno if it would turn anything up.

I did try by Google image search but got no luck. Sad

I imagine you might already know this, but the "ER14.5" written on that transformer is a standard core/bobbin size.  Google it and you'll find multiple manufacturers of the ferrite & bobbin. However, pretty much guaranteed it's a custom winding on it, to Prong's specifications. That would be pretty typical. That red logo you've circled would likely be the company that wound it, and unfortunately there are a zillion companies that'll wind magnetics. I'd guess the winding company (if you found them) would be even less likely than Prong to hand over the winding details.

Looking at the datasheet for the Power Integrations TNY276 offline switcher chip (easy google search) will tell you a lot about what kind of transformer it needs.

Sorry to say I have not find TNY276 datasheet by googling . All I find is TNY274... :/

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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2015, 10:30:59 10:30 »

you still did not answer the question...
or should I say questions...
1 or 1000's is one that you could easy answer... or put in the simplest way "ONE or More"?

or your request is so you can repair a phone charger Tongue or start to make them... for sale on fleabay...

come on max answer the question... show what your made of...
« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 10:43:49 10:43 by pickit2 » Logged

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MAXPAYNE
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2015, 10:52:30 10:52 »

you still did not answer the question...
or should I say questions...
1 or 1000's is one that you could easy answer... or put in the simplest way "ONE or More"?

or your request is so you can repair a phone charger Tongue or start to make them... for sale on fleabay...

come on max answer the question... show what your made of...

I missed somehow to answer your question (see I quoted your one for answering) , I need it to copy the design for my friend. I dont have plan to sell them.. :/

Did you check the picture to see what is written on the chip Huh Its not TYN274 , it is TYN276!

You please again search in Google for TYN276 and attach here the screenshot :@, like the way you did ! This time I will add comment to your screenshot ! :@ :@

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pickit2
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« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2015, 11:44:44 11:44 »

If you read the link, you would have seen Name of pdf = tny274-280.pdf
That includes all models from tny274 to tny280. funny that includes 275,277,278, and 279

I have been user of these devices for about 20 years. and can wind a coil in 20 min for a one off.
no skill needed just the software, wonder if google can find it.

Hint: if its for what you say
1. why the restriction on the size of transformer.
2. what is wrong with buying a off the shelf phone charger
3. I see many tny276's in my workshop, many in Panasonic white goods, scrap models a good source of transformers.
4. if your google can't find PIExpertSuite software (a) try Bing or (b) ask for a link
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CocaCola
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« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2015, 12:31:56 12:31 »

Sorry to say I have not find TNY276 datasheet by googling . All I find is TNY274... :/

Quote
You please again search in Google for TYN276 and attach here the screenshot :@, like the way you did ! This time I will add comment to your screenshot ! :@ :@



What can't you find again?
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« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2015, 12:44:02 12:44 »

His ass to use a baby wipe?
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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2015, 02:16:34 14:16 »

You might be able to reverse engineer the windings, but you still won't know what core material was used.

Let me know where you find that unobtanium-doped ferrite that gets you the small core volume.

And don't forget to share the alloy mix of the transparent-aluminum they used to get the winding isolation specs for working off the mains.

Posted on: January 19, 2015, 02:10:13 14:10 - Automerged


Hint: if its for what you say
1. why the restriction on the size of transformer.

The mains-derived charger is built into the phone case and uses folding prongs to keep it from stabbing you in the heart. The transformer height determines the phone case thickness. I'm surprised it's allowed to be as much as 20mm

I'm also old enough to think that a greater phone case thickness shouldn't be a problem...

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CocaCola
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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2015, 11:24:04 23:24 »

I need it to copy the design for my friend. I dont have plan to sell them.. :/

If you don't have any intention of bootlegging the product for illicit profits, tell your friend to just go buy a Prong and enjoy...

https://prong.com
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« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2015, 01:48:25 01:48 »

HE doesn't have plans to sell them, which is a mere Pontius Pilate legal way of washing his hands of whatever his friend does with it.

Of course his buddy will sell it. Why else do it when you can just buy one and pull the transformer off if for something else or similar ....as a one-off.
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CocaCola
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« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2015, 04:21:41 04:21 »

HE doesn't have plans to sell them, which is a mere Pontius Pilate legal way of washing his hands of whatever his friend does with it.

Yeah, I read the story, didn't buy it though...

Reminds me of when I read some indoor hydroponics forums where everyone is being too smart by half by using SWIM in every post...

SWIM

Acronym meaning: Someone Who Isn't Me
But general use indicates that it is indeed the same person.

IMO this transformer (due to the low profile design needs) is most likely a proprietary OEM piece made for Prong...
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 04:26:13 04:26 by CocaCola » Logged
MAXPAYNE
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« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2015, 08:04:17 08:04 »

If you read the link, you would have seen Name of pdf = tny274-280.pdf
That includes all models from tny274 to tny280. funny that includes 275,277,278, and 279

I have been user of these devices for about 20 years. and can wind a coil in 20 min for a one off.
no skill needed just the software, wonder if google can find it.

Hint: if its for what you say
1. why the restriction on the size of transformer.
2. what is wrong with buying a off the shelf phone charger
3. I see many tny276's in my workshop, many in Panasonic white goods, scrap models a good source of transformers.
4. if your google can't find PIExpertSuite software (a) try Bing or (b) ask for a link

The SWIM needs a 5V 1A supply, but he is not an EE. Thats why he asked me to copy the design from his prong supply. and modify the layout to fit in a .7 inch height. I dont have previous experience using PI chips. I have seen the name PI Expert suite here but never tried that before.

Posted on: January 20, 2015, 12:45:45 pm - Automerged



What can't you find again?

Damn! I should have added the "GN" ...  poor me !!

Posted on: January 20, 2015, 12:55:11 pm - Automerged

Yeah, I read the story, didn't buy it though...

Reminds me of when I read some indoor hydroponics forums where everyone is being too smart by half by using SWIM in every post...

SWIM

Acronym meaning: Someone Who Isn't Me
But general use indicates that it is indeed the same person.

IMO this transformer (due to the low profile design needs) is most likely a proprietary OEM piece made for Prong...
If you read the link, you would have seen Name of pdf = tny274-280.pdf
That includes all models from tny274 to tny280. funny that includes 275,277,278, and 279

I have been user of these devices for about 20 years. and can wind a coil in 20 min for a one off.
no skill needed just the software, wonder if google can find it.

Hint: if its for what you say
1. why the restriction on the size of transformer.
2. what is wrong with buying a off the shelf phone charger
3. I see many tny276's in my workshop, many in Panasonic white goods, scrap models a good source of transformers.
4. if your google can't find PIExpertSuite software (a) try Bing or (b) ask for a link

I have downloaded the PI Expert Suite and exploring it. The software is impressive. I should have explored it before ! Now I dont need to copy the prong. I can design myself.Infact I found an interesting chip, Inn2303K.

Pickit2, can you confirm if I design using the software, the transformer operates as expected as the design parameters input ?   
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« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2015, 08:19:07 08:19 »

Back to the transformer. TNY276 is 10 watt rating, many low profile transformer in this rating, as low as 10mm in height - just search for horizontal type. Attached a sample datasheet.

Anyway for 5V 1A power supply, have a look at iPhone or Samsung traveler charger - both are good and none of them use Power Integration components.

-ichan
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CocaCola
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« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2015, 09:35:07 09:35 »

The SWIM needs a 5V 1A supply, but he is not an EE.

As Ichan said just get a phone travel charger, they are about $1 delivered to your door on Ebay and if you pick a small one like the one linked bellow the entire circuit board is going to be within your .8" height since the unit itself appears to be about .5" tall ID from the pictures...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-5V-1A-Wall-Home-USB-Power-Adapter-Charger-US-EU-Plug-for-iPhone-B-W-/371220811522
 
Quote
Damn! I should have added the "GN" ...  poor me !!

I doubt you even tried it without the GN or at all honestly, as it makes little difference...

« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 09:39:22 09:39 by CocaCola » Logged
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« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2015, 09:54:11 09:54 »

As Ichan said just get a phone travel charger, they are about $1 delivered to your door on Ebay and if you pick a small one like the one linked bellow the entire circuit board is going to be within your .8" height since the unit itself appears to be about .5" tall ID from the pictures...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-5V-1A-Wall-Home-USB-Power-Adapter-Charger-US-EU-Plug-for-iPhone-B-W-/371220811522
 
I doubt you even tried it without the GN or at all honestly, as it makes little difference...



Ya . honestly I tried. But the waveshare site is not opening at my place....
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CocaCola
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« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2015, 10:56:45 10:56 »

Ya . honestly I tried. But the waveshare site is not opening at my place....

So you tried ONE result on a single Google search and gave up your search after that when the single site didn't open properly?  Did you even think to say try the second link?  A link that is directly to the PDF datasheet itself?  Why didn't you try a few more of the 17K + results when the first one didn't work properly? It's really no wonder you can't find anything on Google you are not even trying not a single bit of effort apparently...
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MAXPAYNE
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« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2015, 10:59:20 10:59 »

I think I need to improve my searching... 
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« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2015, 01:21:18 13:21 »

As Ichan said just get a phone travel charger, they are about $1 delivered to your door on Ebay and if you pick a small one like the one linked bellow the entire circuit board is going to be within your .8" height since the unit itself appears to be about .5" tall ID from the pictures...


A good way to lose everything you own and work for a victim's family the rest of your life

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/11/27/thai-man-dies-after-alleged-electrocution-from-charging-iphone-4s-

Mains stuff is not something to F with if you don't know what you are doing. That includes blind copying of others' designs.
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CocaCola
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« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2015, 06:37:53 18:37 »

A good way to lose everything you own and work for a victim's family the rest of your life

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/11/27/thai-man-dies-after-alleged-electrocution-from-charging-iphone-4s-

The sky is falling!!!  That is nothing short of a scare hype, Just because it's cheap and from Asia doesn't mean you are going to die from it...  People get injured and die all the time from 'name brand' products as well...  A single or even handful of articles about 'knock off' stuff hurting someone and claiming it's going to cost you for the rest of your life if you use one is beyond scare exaggeration...  A lot of that is a push of those type of articles is by companies like Apple promoting their product...

Do you know for a fact that the design I linked to or others are faulty designs that are going to electrocute you?  Can you tell me what is wrong with the design inside that particular adapter?  I want to be enlightened with facts not speculative hyperbole, so please share your inside knowledge...

Quote
Mains stuff is not something to F with if you don't know what you are doing. That includes blind copying of others' designs.

Well no doubt, that is why I told him initially to just tell his friend to go buy a Prong and be done with it, or buy another over the counter finished product...  I have read enough of Max's post that I have drawn my own conclusions on his abilities...
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 06:45:25 18:45 by CocaCola » Logged
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