x10_in and x10_Out with mikrobasic pro.

[peppeviruz]

Hi, by another project found, I made this other one little better:
x10 protocol with mikrobasic x10_in and x10_out.

here schematics and source:

old.....
(http://www.4shared.com/file/npSqv1vq/X10_MikroBasic.html)

[metal]

I wanted to ask you, did you try this circuit in a real environment? If yes, how stable and immune to noise this circuit is?

regards

[peppeviruz]

no, not yet, only in simulation for now, have to buy some components; do you think doesn't work in a real environment?
both in first pic and in second pic there are high-pass filter to pass only the x10 burst, not the 50hz. But not yet tested at home.

[metal]

If you test it let me know your results please.

I heard that in high noise environments, X10 fails badly. I don't know about home usage for X10, try it and let me know please.

regards

[peppeviruz]

shurelly, but not for the moment....... we have to wait a while, some weeks.

[solutions]

If you test it let me know your results please.

I heard that in high noise environments, X10 fails badly. I don't know about home usage for X10, try it and let me know please.

regards

I have it, it does, especially if a motor is running (fridge, furnace).  BUT, it's dirt cheap, which more than makes up for it unless you are depending on something happening without feedback (human button press).

[metal]

Are there better solutions that we can build ourselves?

[solutions]

You have to spec "better"

There's nothing I know that's cheaper than X10 - that's one form of "better"

Even X10 has RF - Zigbee seems to be the simplest if you want reliable links - another form of "better"

[Parmin]

Zigbee seems to be the simplest if you want reliable links

+1 on that.

Or bluetooth but thats not as easy to implement

[metal]

As you can see solutions, we were talking about implementing X10 in a noisy environment, a better solution is a working one which can also be implemented by hobbyists, and if you look at a solution's implementation constraint possibility, you notice that cheap is one of them in the majority of implementation scenarios.

I remember I saw some Zigbee modules that have RS232/SPI interface to ease interface to controllers. Atmel also produces ATmega128RFA1.

The problem of X10 is that its implementation it self needs extra care on both sides, coding and hardware. For example, many implementations suffer false zero-crossing firing, not to forget the order of the high-pass filter as well. My self never tried X10 since many friends here complained about it being prone to false operation due to noisy mains lines which makes it difficult for X10 components to be carried or filtered to be processed. These X10 products were the commercial ones, who knows, may be homemade X10 devices perform better, that's why I asked peppeviruz in the first place.

[peppeviruz]

well..... some news about my project: IT WORKS!!!!!
some words about:
is not a real x10 protocol, its mine protocol, I'd like to give as name: "XXX" protocol
so..... it transmit and receive 24 bits:
1110, hader;
xxxx\xxxx are:room\unit;
xxxxxxxx are command;
xxxx is a kind of checksum of intere transmission.
in rar you will find:
send source for 16f876- Mikrobasic pro
receiver source for 12f675 (you can use also 12f629, with some modifications!) - Mikrobasic pro
and tx/rx schemes in eagle format scheme.
I tested a lot and it works well (tested on around 30 meters from receiver to sender, and it worked!)  
only need some good and little (for receiver!) pcbs, you can try before with spacers for electronic projects then use a pcb.....
BE ATTENCTION, when you use them, remember, YOU ARE USING HI VOLTAGE (220 Volts or 110 Volts), so watch well, and  be careful where you put your hands on them!!!
see U!

all inside:

http://www.4shared.com/file/fnjBHbiq/xxx10-16f876_tx-12f675_rx.html

bye!!!

P.S.: THERE IS AN ERROR On RX scheme, the 220nf capacitor, is instead a 2200pf capacitor, (that one in parallel with a 100k resistor)

[solutions]

Congratulations on your project working. 

"24 bits" is quite irrelevant.  What carrier frequency are you using  (I bet you are not...just bit banging a voltage at zero cross), how many carrier bursts per zero cross, can it do multiphase, will it jump a transformer core, how many circuit branches in your testing, and what is receiver sensitivity and how narrow is your receive filter bandwidth?

It sounds nice, but more of these details means it will get picked up by more serious people - a compliment to you when they do.

I neglected in my earlier post to mention CC430 has Zigbee for less than you can build an X10 IMO.  BUT, X10 has cool peripherals that are ready to go and packaged.

[peppeviruz]

Congratulations on your project working. 

"24 bits" is quite irrelevant.  What carrier frequency are you using  (I bet you are not...just bit banging a voltage at zero cross), how many carrier bursts per zero cross, can it do multiphase, will it jump a transformer core, how many circuit branches in your testing, and what is receiver sensitivity and how narrow is your receive filter bandwidth?

It sounds nice, but more of these details means it will get picked up by more serious people - a compliment to you when they do.

I neglected in my earlier post to mention CC430 has Zigbee for less than you can build an X10 IMO.  BUT, X10 has cool peripherals that are ready to go and packaged.

ok, all bits are sent only when the zerocross is in rising (becouse I 've seen some noises in downhill), so, all transmission is when detect rising zerocross, no 2 bits like "01" to send "0" or "10" to send "1", in fact you have checksum at the end of transmission, I tried with 66 khz and the transmission fails, while at 125 khz works, the filter is only one of tricks, you have also to filter, if needed, the line against the burst derived from inductances of electric motors in home, usually, only need to put a 100uH in serie with a 100nf/400v capacitor, between phase and neutral of a inductive motos, in other places found a similiar solution with a 100R in series with a 100nf/400v capacitor, before the inducrive motor, in parallel whit its phase and neutral contants, I've tested both transmitter and receiver in quite all places into my home, and worked, only in one case, it didn't work, but didn't received anything, but not yet tried to apply a kind of inductive filter onto, in the rest of all my house, it works great!!!
P.S. the transmission, burst 3 times 125khz to send every bit, in around 3 milliseconds for bit, so in rise zerocross, to send "1", the transmitter, send 3 times a 125 khz signal long around 1 millisec, 1 x 3=3, but if you debug the mikrobasic coode, you can check all!!!
now,only hope someone produces a good pcbs of transmitter and receiver!
bye!

[solutions]

Before you do those boards, it'd be nice for you to come up with an X10 compatible mode as well - sounds reasonably close.  Again, if you want it to proliferate and for it to have a lot of devices it can control.  For some, as is is fine, of course.

[peppeviruz]

Before you do those boards, it'd be nice for you to come up with an X10 compatible mode as well - sounds reasonably close.  Again, if you want it to proliferate and for it to have a lot of devices it can control.  For some, as is is fine, of course.

I tryed, but repeat, in falling zerocross, there were some disturbs, and the comunication became impossible, but if U want, you can try by yourself, modifing the  source code in transmitter and in receiver, to have a compatible x10 protocol. For me didn't work into my house.
you can have all specification of x10 protocol here:

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/00236B.pdf
(in this way you don't need the checksum, becouse "0" bit is "01" and "1" is "10", and if there are some interferences into transmission, the "0", ("01")could became "11", and also "1" (10) could became "11" bits, so the transmission can be refused by receivers!)

I made only for my house, if I decide to implement some domotic into, and don't want spend a lot of money (with 15 dollars you can build the transmitter posted here, and with less than 5 you can build the receiver!)
but if someone will be able to have a compatible x10 protocol with theese soft/hardware, could post here!
bye!

[microic]

[quote

all inside:

http://www.4shared.com/file/fnjBHbiq/xxx10-16f876_tx-12f675_rx.html

bye!!!
[/quote]

Hi to all, is there a way to upload it again.
Thanks,
Damir