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Author Topic: I need a help with DC to AC converter ( pure sine )  (Read 30421 times)
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Sun_rise_pt
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« on: June 14, 2007, 07:09:58 19:09 »

I need schematics of a converter DC (12 or 24V) to AC (220V 50 or 60Hz pure sine) and 1kW aprox with IGBT´s or FET's (PWM).
Can anybody help me?

Thak you...
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jeanninemtv
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2007, 10:49:27 22:49 »

hummm.... i remember one version with micro, DAC and an 3055 and up transformer ...

yout other way is using pwm and a cap and a opamp to post filter instead of DAC...








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Sun_rise_pt
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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2007, 05:43:28 17:43 »

Hi jeanninemtv.

Please share with us your infos if possible with schematics...

Thank you.
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Taner
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« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2007, 02:46:00 14:46 »

Hi,
i made a sine-wave inverter project with PIC16F876A,
here is a circuit and CCS PCWH C source file:
http://www.4shared.com/dir/2136086/3afe23e/sharing.html

 Smiley
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Sun_rise_pt
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2007, 07:22:47 19:22 »

Dear Taner,

Thank you for the msg here.

Please send me the picture of inverter (schematics) because aren't possible the download from http://www.4shared.com/dir/2136086/3afe23e/sharing.html
The C code are ok...

Regards.
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Taner
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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2007, 11:15:08 23:15 »

OK
 Smiley
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mayli
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« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2007, 08:09:48 08:09 »

Does sohel has your design pic16f72 source code?
 Cheesy
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juk
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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2007, 10:32:53 10:32 »

Hi Taner,

I need too, Please send me the picture of inverter (schematics)

Thank you
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ipek
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« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2007, 09:56:42 21:56 »

hi  Uninterruptible Power Supply pure sine high eff.....
http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/industry/datasheets/microchip/Mchipweb/1010/Appnote/Category/rDesigns/index.htm#1
good idea
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juk
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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2007, 01:18:13 01:18 »

Hi ipek

   Thanks...That's good site
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Taner
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« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2007, 06:34:13 18:34 »

Electrical circuit and source code of the inverter, here:
http://mihd.net/qf94no

Best regards,
Taner
 Smiley
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juk
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« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2007, 11:24:12 23:24 »

Hello Taner,

Thank you very much.
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zawmintun1
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« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2007, 10:39:08 10:39 »

Hi Sohel
Are you kidding all?
Pls give source for your Schematics of PIC 16x72
as you can
Thank you for your idea
Your Ckt is very good and I interest in it with source code
Peace upon for you
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MAXPAYNE
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It's a little funny......


« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2007, 07:28:54 07:28 »

Hey Sohel, What's up with uor promise.. Huh Huh Huh
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smainj
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WWW
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2007, 03:22:59 15:22 »

500 watts inverter
http://www.electronicsteacher.com/circuits-and-diagrams/power-supplies-and-control-schematics/500Watts_Inverter2.gif
maybe  to help you

« Last Edit: August 10, 2007, 12:05:52 12:05 by smainj » Logged

Sun_rise_pt
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« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2007, 07:43:18 19:43 »

 Thank you for the pix sohel.  Manny people are happy if you can send de PIC code...

me too!!!

 Wink
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Ahmad_k
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« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2007, 08:32:51 20:32 »

I think after examining the design that is not a true simewave inverter. If yes, where is the output filter Huh?

If you using PWM technique then why your transformer is so big Huh

I think it is a modified squarewave.
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Ahmad_k
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« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2007, 04:39:43 16:39 »

Thanks Sohel, and sorry.

One more question please. I see that you calculate your transformer on 50 hz is that right ?? because you did not use a toroide or ferrite transformer.

and why you did not use two IR2110 or similar par to drive mosfet Huh  it will simplify your board size
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Sun_rise_pt
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« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2007, 06:23:15 18:23 »

Thank you Sohel.

The schematics have a "good look"...

Have you the firmware to share with us?
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sam_des
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« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2007, 08:00:04 20:00 »

Hello Everyone,

1) Output Filter must be L-C, not just C to produce SINE Wave. Though it is not directly apperant from sch or photos, there is L. Observe that Transformer is SECTIONAL, i.e. it is wound as S-P-S (S-Secondary, P-Primary).Winding xformer this way produces a very large LEAKAGE INDUCTANCE which acts as L.

2) Xformer seems large for PWM switching, because I guess switching frequency is pretty low around 5-6 kHz. That's what F72 will be able to produce with Software generated 4-Bridge Drives.

3) Is that really 2kV inverter ? Schmeatic shows C19, C20 as 4700u/25V across battery. Battery then must be of only 12V. Am I right ? Nothing wrong in operation, though I wonder how much back-up time this inverter will give at full-load of 2kV !

4) I think there is one mistake in schematic - at Chg Control LM358. Pin no. 4(GND) of this 358(U1) should not be connected to GND of rest of the circuit(i.e. Battery -ve). But it should be rather connected to A point.  Can you verify this, Sohel Tongue

Rest of the circuit is quite straight forward. Software for this can be written easily(I guess Grin)

Any one wanting more information about this circuit,can ask questions.

Please note that I don't have the source code, so don't ask it. Neither I've built this in real hardware. But I do have exprience with designing Inverters/UPS so, If anyone willing to write software & test in actual hardware and more importantly share results with everyone here, I can be of help.

reagrds,

sam_des
« Last Edit: August 13, 2007, 08:04:57 20:04 by sam_des » Logged

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sohel
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« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2007, 09:35:27 21:35 »

Hello Everyone,

1) Output Filter must be L-C, not just C to produce SINE Wave. Though it is not directly apperant from sch or photos, there is L. Observe that Transformer is SECTIONAL, i.e. it is wound as S-P-S (S-Secondary, P-Primary).Winding xformer this way produces a very large LEAKAGE INDUCTANCE which acts as L.

2) Xformer seems large for PWM switching, because I guess switching frequency is pretty low around 5-6 kHz. That's what F72 will be able to produce with Software generated 4-Bridge Drives.

3) Is that really 2kV inverter ? Schmeatic shows C19, C20 as 4700u/25V across battery. Battery then must be of only 12V. Am I right ? Nothing wrong in operation, though I wonder how much back-up time this inverter will give at full-load of 2kV !

4) I think there is one mistake in schematic - at Chg Control LM358. Pin no. 4(GND) of this 358(U1) should not be connected to GND of rest of the circuit(i.e. Battery -ve). But it should be rather connected to A point.  Can you verify this, Sohel Tongue

Rest of the circuit is quite straight forward. Software for this can be written easily(I guess Grin)

Any one wanting more information about this circuit,can ask questions.

Please note that I don't have the source code, so don't ask it. Neither I've built this in real hardware. But I do have exprience with designing Inverters/UPS so, If anyone willing to write software & test in actual hardware and more importantly share results with everyone here, I can be of help.

reagrds,

sam_des


if u want sine wave without L-C no problem. i have use cap for filter (smooth curve). u have seen online transformer for igbt which show on my site.  Roll Eyes

by the way i have deleted all topics from me, because my team  Shocked
« Last Edit: August 13, 2007, 09:38:24 21:38 by sohel » Logged
Ahmad_k
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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2007, 09:14:57 21:14 »

Another question to sohel. I see in your schematic that the used output for driving the Mosfet are RC0, RC1, RC4 and RC5. I think that the pwm signal are transmitted by RC0 and RC1. That mean that you use the PWM in software mode and not in hardware mode. Is that right ??
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sohel
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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2007, 09:51:29 21:51 »

Another question to sohel. I see in your schematic that the used output for driving the Mosfet are RC0, RC1, RC4 and RC5. I think that the pwm signal are transmitted by RC0 and RC1. That mean that you use the PWM in software mode and not in hardware mode. Is that right ??

 Grin u r right.
all pwm work by software.
#define osc_1 PORTC,0
#define osc_2 PORTC,1
#define osc_3 PORTC,4
#define osc_4 PORTC,5
#define BUZZER PORTC,6
#define RELAY PORTC,7
#define SWITCH PORTB,2

look at short video
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 10:30:39 22:30 by sohel » Logged
Ahmad_k
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« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2007, 08:50:41 08:50 »

Thank You sohel.

I made a simple test yesterday on PWM. I calculate a lookup table using Visual basic (To store it in file automatically) to obtain a 70% amplitude of the sinewave.

when test it with filtering the forme of the signal was very noisy. Then I recalculate the table to obtain 50% and the signal become pure sine. ( I'm using hardware PWM and delay mode)

Any Idea ??

And final question why almost of puresine use the 16F72 or 16C72 ? is there any difference in the PWM interface with 16F72 and 16F873 ?? i'm using 16F873 running on 20Mhz and the PWM signal frequency is 18khz
« Last Edit: August 15, 2007, 08:59:42 08:59 by Ahmad_k » Logged
sohel
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« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2007, 11:06:21 11:06 »

u Can also use pic16f676. r u know another way make pwm using timer1. some sample with pic16f84. how they did it? f84 have any pwm ? Huh Huh Huh
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Ahmad_k
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« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2007, 01:22:36 13:22 »

I found my mistake. I forgot to clear the flag PIR1.1 on each overflow of timer1 and now the signal has very good sinewave shape    Grin Grin Grin

But another problem was found when i tried to modify the lookup table within the program to control the feedback from output  Embarrassed Embarrassed. I dont know why but the frequency is changed each time i change the lookuptable.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2007, 01:26:32 13:26 by Ahmad_k » Logged
iphone
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« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2007, 07:12:56 19:12 »

Ahmad_K,

I just run your DSN file ... just working as you said but once I compile to hex code, one message appear ( not error message ... just warning/advice message)

Just FYI
« Last Edit: August 15, 2007, 07:15:39 19:15 by iphone » Logged
Ahmad_k
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« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2007, 11:01:56 23:01 »

This is not an error if you run the program, a pure sinewave will be on the output but when i change the Factor "/4" in line 65 and 70 the frequency change. I think that the divide function took a lot of time that's why the frequency change, i will try using another PIC maybe the 18 series, or if SOHEL will give me any idea to solve this problem, i dont need any source code sohel, but an idea of controling the output amplitude via the feedback.
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sam_des
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« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2007, 08:20:47 20:20 »

Hello Ahmad_k,

Yes, your guess is correct. PIC takes lot of time for divide.  Simply scale your table so that, you don't need to divide, rather do shifting.

e.g. Sine Table generated as 128 * sin(x), x from 0->180 degrees

At run time you can calculate Pulse Width as (A * Sine table(i)) >> 7, where A is amplitude your feedback alogirthm calculated. Note that multiplication must be done before Division.
For PIC14, not having 'mul', you will have to bear with Slow Software Calculation, try to implement that multiplication inline in assembly.

Also, if you are building actual hardware, make sure you put checks on Max & Min. Pulse Width that can be used by PWM.

Try Arithmatic Waveform Synthesis - You can generate Waveform of any Freqeuncy + Shape + Amplitude.

regrads,

sam_des
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tAhm1D
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« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2008, 04:52:17 16:52 »

u Can also use pic16f676. r u know another way make pwm using timer1. some sample with pic16f84. how they did it? f84 have any pwm ? Huh Huh Huh

Hi Sohel,
Yes it can be done with 16F676. I have studied your schematic and found out the following:
You have used Full Bridge circuit and used 6.4 KHz modulated frequency with pic Microcontroller for creating sinewave with 12v dc having 50 Hz carrier frequency.
Before the Mosfet gate, the modulating frequency is demodulated with RC Low Pass Filter and pulse of 50Hz carrier frequency of sine wave shape is applied to the Mosfet gate so that the Big Linear Iron Core Transformer see 50Hz sinewave in the primary side and produce 220v sinewave AC in the output.

Please put your comment regarding my observation and if you put some light regarding the modality of RC Low pass filter, it will be easier for me to make the sinewave inverter with Linear Transformer.

I made modified sine wave inverter with Ferrite Core with 400 VA with 90% efficiency. My modality is to made 12v Dc to 270v Dc with ETD39 Ferrite Core with SG3525 pwm ic and push-pull topology. Then making that 270v Dc to 220v AC with Full Bridge Topology with Pic 12F675. Then I made the the Battery Charger with another ETD 39 Ferrite Core and Top Switch and max. current output of the charger is 10A. Now I am trying to make Switch Mode Pure Sine wave inverter with Pic 18F1320.

If you kindly put some light on RC Low Pass Filter as I assume that you have used it in your circuit, I can try for Linear Sine wave Inverter.
With Thanks.

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sohel
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« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2008, 07:31:41 07:31 »

please search microchip and sonsivri u will find  pure sun light on ur project, i am busy on learning a Small "C" With flavour HI-TECH and MICROCHIP., IF u can light on it not for sun light. please help me.
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« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2009, 12:53:20 12:53 »

Hello Ahmad_k

i want code and schematic for the above pls help me.
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rajudp
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« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2009, 10:50:13 22:50 »

there is  a new reference design available at microchip site http://www.microchip.com/offlineups
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Jehan
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« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2009, 04:05:22 16:05 »

Microchip has a new application note for DSP based UPS, this use all digital technique

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1824&appnote=en543189
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rajudp
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« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2010, 02:06:16 14:06 »

Please give the password for download
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king
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Jack of All But Master of One


« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2010, 05:22:25 17:22 »

Hi!

I have generated 3 sine waves using Proton and PIC16f876A (Xtal= 20MHZ)  and currently these three waves are not 120 degree apart from each other but two are of same phase and one is 180 degree out of phase.Out of three sine waves two has been produced using HPWM and the third one using Software PWM which has same frequency as HPWM (19.56 KHZ), Now the problem which i am facing is that the sine wave produced using software pwm is not pure as other two produced by HPWM and also the peak voltage is different from HPWM Sine waves, i have attached the screen shots, Proteus file, and HEX file.Please do help me in solving this problem. Any kind of help will be highly appreciated.

Yellow = Phase 1
Pink = Phase 2 (180 Deg out of phase)
Green = Phase 3 (Produced using Software by the help of T1mer1)


Also Phase1 and Phase2 can be used in making single phase Sine Wave Inverter.Please Reply Soon

Regards

King
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« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2010, 05:10:31 05:10 »

King,

Switch to a uC that has 3 HWPWM Modules.

Software PWM.. in a word.. sucks.  The Rising/Falling edges are not as sharp and the freq/duty will not be as exact as HW.

The PIC16F767 is usually a good choice for an inexpensive part with 3 HWPWM modules - I use it often.
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king
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« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2010, 06:35:32 18:35 »

Hi!
No Pilotpk, this is possible to generate Three Phase using PIC18F452 because if you see An843 of microchip then in there Application Note they have generated Three Phases using PIC18F452 with the help of Timer so i think little hard work would be needed to do this task and then all problems will be solved and if i will try to switch on 3HPWM channel PIC then it is not locally available in our market, i have to import it so this is one of the second issue. On the contrary i have find out one thing that if we modify the lookup table then the edges will be sharp like other two waves and I am still working on it.

Regards,

King
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