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Author Topic: How Microstepping 5 phase pentagon  (Read 7458 times)
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Naste
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« on: March 23, 2010, 05:30:35 05:30 »

Hi All

I have finished my CNC project, It works good with my stepper driver with half step mode.
there is my blog about my CNC , but in Indonesian language...Smiley
http://nastelroy.wordpress.com/2009/10/26/cnc-3-axis

But I'm very interested to upgrade my driver with microstepping mode. As you know that my motor stepper is 5 phase Pentagon.
Very difficult to me to make this microstepping...if anybody can help, I will be very happy...

regards,


Nastelroy
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DreamCat
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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2010, 07:00:51 07:00 »

why not use microstepping drive IC?
such as Allegro's product, A3977.....
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solutions
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2010, 07:40:26 07:40 »

Wow - that's a lot of mass on the gantry and in that spindle motor.

Congratulations on finishing your project.  Does it meet the specs you published?  What kind of feeds and speeds can you actually get out of it?

I'd look into an FPGA to make it microstep for the pentagon.  I doubt you'll find a standard stepper chip that will do 5 phase.
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Naste
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 11:54:37 11:54 »

Wow - that's a lot of mass on the gantry and in that spindle motor.

Congratulations on finishing your project.  Does it meet the specs you published?  What kind of feeds and speeds can you actually get out of it?

I'd look into an FPGA to make it microstep for the pentagon.  I doubt you'll find a standard stepper chip that will do 5 phase.



That is my 1st design, it has several weakness...my goal spesification is up to 20 micron, but in fact my error is up to 240 micron.
The most errors cause from the bearing of my motor stepper. my motor stepper can run at 25 mm/s or 1200 mm/minute
what is FPGA?


why not use microstepping drive IC?
such as Allegro's product, A3977.....



Thanks for your reply, but as I know A3977 is used for 2 phase microstepping. That IC cannot use for 5 phase motorstepper.
I have reads a lot article at internet, but I still confuse to make 5 phase pentagon microstepping
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 12:08:48 12:08 by Naste » Logged
Ichan
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2010, 04:59:40 16:59 »

Haven't done it myself but microstepping 5 phase stepper motor basically the same with 2 phase stepper motor - modulate the the driving current on each phase in a sinusoidal like waveform. The difference is in 2 phase motor there is 4 phase to be modulated while in 5 phase motor there is 5. I think 5 DAC is needed for 5 phase motor, only 2 DAC needed on 2 phase motor as the phase difference is 90 degree.

What is the reason of using 5 phase stepper motor?

-ichan
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Naste
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2010, 05:08:45 17:08 »

Haven't done it myself but microstepping 5 phase stepper motor basically the same with 2 phase stepper motor - modulate the the driving current on each phase in a sinusoidal like waveform. The difference is in 2 phase motor there is 4 phase to be modulated while in 5 phase motor there is 5. I think 5 DAC is needed for 5 phase motor, only 2 DAC needed on 2 phase motor as the phase difference is 90 degree.

What is the reason of using 5 phase stepper motor?

-ichan

Thanks for reply

Very complicated to drive with sine wave for pentagon, for 2 phase maybe I can do that, but not for Pentagon...Sad
I use 5 phase because it easy to find in my country.
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Ichan
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2010, 05:31:30 17:31 »

My understanding about microstep driving of stepper motor is they are all driving with Sinusoidal like waveform.

In 2 phase motor there will be 4 half bridge (2 full bridge), phase difference is 360 / 4 = 90 degree.
In 5 phase motor there will be 5 half bridge, phase difference is 360 / 5 = 72 degree.
Other is the same.

You may try this to find 2 phase stepper motor: http://indonetwork.co.id/alloffers/stepper.html

-ichan
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Naste
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2010, 04:09:59 16:09 »

My understanding about microstep driving of stepper motor is they are all driving with Sinusoidal like waveform.

In 2 phase motor there will be 4 half bridge (2 full bridge), phase difference is 360 / 4 = 90 degree.
In 5 phase motor there will be 5 half bridge, phase difference is 360 / 5 = 72 degree.
Other is the same.

You may try this to find 2 phase stepper motor: http://indonetwork.co.id/alloffers/stepper.html

-ichan

Hi thanks for your reply..
I have read some article about applying sine wave for microstepping technique, but it will be very complicated after applying sine wave with the sequence of 5 phase pentagon...its very different with 2 phase, expecially with their penta connection.
But I think I can do that with current limiting each phase by ADC...I think current limiting is more easy better than applying sine wave.
How about you?
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zawmintun1
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« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 05:03:33 05:03 »

http://rapidshare.com/files/148615351/5_Phase.zip
http://www.sonsivri.com/forum/index.php?topic=4794.0
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 05:13:31 05:13 by zawmintun1 » Logged
Ichan
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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2010, 06:28:38 06:28 »

The term current limiting is about limiting the current to a one fixed value, here we need to control the current.

Using ADC to measure the current via sense resistor and then make adjustment to control it (via pwm for ex.) is absolutely possible, it will need a pretty fast ADC and processor. The challenge with motor control is how to handle the noise and spikes introduced by inductive - dynamic load of the motor winding.

I am not interested on building a microsteping driver for 5 phase motor, the advantage of 5 phase is small compared to the complexity of the driver, IMHO.

Attached the Oriental Motor patent about 5 phase microstep driver which i did not carefully read, hope it will have any use on your jouney.

-ichan
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Naste
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2010, 07:12:55 07:12 »

The term current limiting is about limiting the current to a one fixed value, here we need to control the current.

Using ADC to measure the current via sense resistor and then make adjustment to control it (via pwm for ex.) is absolutely possible, it will need a pretty fast ADC and processor. The challenge with motor control is how to handle the noise and spikes introduced by inductive - dynamic load of the motor winding.

I am not interested on building a microsteping driver for 5 phase motor, the advantage of 5 phase is small compared to the complexity of the driver, IMHO.

Attached the Oriental Motor patent about 5 phase microstep driver which i did not carefully read, hope it will have any use on your jouney.

-ichan

Ichan,

Nice information...I have never read this article before....thanks a lot.
If you have another another article, It will be a glorius gift...

Naste
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sohel
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2013, 09:07:38 09:07 »

Dear all,

i have found two 5 phase stepper motor, i want to use it for my coil winding machine layer placement. i am confuse with driver circuit, i want to use three  L298N driver chip. i have tested this motor with 3v, it take 3 amp current as truth table sequence order.  please help me to design driver circuit for that. i have attach simple simulation for L298N.

Thanks


now i have solved.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 01:35:41 13:35 by sohel » Logged

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