CNC - PCB Mill / drill

[DTiziano]

PCB drilling and milling with a CNC.

After long search and experiments, function of programs available (to me at least),
I come to a solution that use some different program to generate the Gcode, plus a self written  function to generate the drilling data.
Programs involved:
Camware CAM 350              gerber conversion and drill generation
Circuit CAM 5.0 from LPKF    isolation path (DXF)
Visual Mill 5                       isolation DXF to gcode
Cimco Edit                        gcode prevue

My starting point are 274D gerber files.
On the PCB CAD I generate the Top, Bottom and Border layout, with drill data embedded on the pad stack.
With CAM350 version 9.5, I convert it to 274X format.
The drill data is extracted, sorted by distance and exported in Excellon2 format.
Additional function performed by CAM350 is to change the coordinates origin suitable for my CNC configuration.
The Excellon2 data is converted to gcode by my application.
The 274X file are imported (on the relative layer) in CircuitCam.
CircuitCam calculate the isolation path, and export it to DXF (no gcode support).
My configuration use two different tools: standard 0,6 mm , small 0,25 and isolation set at 0,6 mm. Typically Circuitcam use the 0,6 mm tools to route 95% of the PCB and the 0.25 mm to complete it. This configuration let me get a good isolation in very short time. Different configuration is also possible (till 4 different tools), and also select areas to mill completely (pouring).
Circuircam is really a powerfull application, the only drawback is that It do not generate the Gcode.
From the three base layer: top, buttom and Board I generate till 5 files:
-   Top standard, path for 0,6 mm
-   Top small, path for 0,25 mm
-   Bottom standard, path for 0,6 mm
-   Bottom small, path for 0,25 mm
-   Border

Once configured, CircuitCam perform all these operation by just few mouse clicks. The isolation calculation is very fast and accurate (much faster and better than Coppercam). The results can also be edited.

Visual Mill 5 take care to convert the DXF file to Gcode.
The five layer must be configured as long as the tools to be used.
I use a tricks to speed up the procedure. Once made the first project, a make a copy and then I replace all the layers data with the new one, all other assignment are kept and the generation are greatly speed up.

Cimco edit let you check the gcode generated and simulate the final result. At the beginning it is a must, it let discover errors or mistakes in the Gcode or procedure used to do it.

My CNC mill is driven by MACH3, and once configured for automatic Z axis presetting  after tool change the PCB milling and drilling is now quite simple and easy to do.

The attached picture is a sample double side PCB.

Additional notes
CopperCAM basically perform all these operation, is small and quite easy to operate and cheap.
Unfortunately, some drawback are very annoying and serious if you want to make good PCBs.
The isolation path is not accurate and even worst non optimized, do not support different size tool, editing is poor, drilling depending the way is generated is not sorted or not referenced to the coordinate.

http://rapidshare.com/files/228043958/CAM5.rar     CircuitCam V5

or

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4QAS4S2C           CircuitCam V5

Password: www.sonsivri.com

For the other software search them in the forum.

 

[chuckoo]

Hi,

looks quite good. I have been working with PCB milling also, still doing it for very small boards. I use EAGLE .. outline via dxf ... mastercam ... gcode  ...  mach3. I have similar experience, especially leftover copper whiskers are a big problem. Usable time of the bits i also not tooo good.

Since about a year i use TTF and only drill the boards afterwards with the CNC. This is mostly faster and gives better results. It is cheaper also and you can etch 5 mill isolations , which you cannot mill anyway...

 

[weewee]

Hi DTiziano,
please advise, How can I export DXF from LPKF CircuitCam since it says -Emtry- in that export command?

thanks
weewee

[DTiziano]

Seem to be stange, but the inport/export functions is user configurable, and this version is blank.
It is not difficult but, it takes some time to discover.
I am quite busy at the moment, but give me some days and I will tray to post the configuration file.

[weewee]

Hi DTiziano,

Yes, it  is user configurable and I did it, able to replace -empty- to DXF


but the DXF file that I got from CircuitCam5 was not recognize by other cad/cam programs

below is the header of this dxf file

BE == Binary EDIF File ....circle jobInteger curve closedCurve R0 transform jobIdentifier polygon ROUND configItemHeader flashAttribute configItem shapeType shapeParameter jobReal jobForm jobTask cornerType drawAttribute endType pathWidth captureInterval jobString designLevel displayAttributes color order configRef configItemRef minDrawLength overlap configHeader flash path ScScale configLpkfMillDrill e jobOutput jobHeader....

weewee

[tAhm1D]

Hi DTiziano,
The PCB Board shown in your attachment which I think is made with your CNC Mill is really impressive. I am thinking of  collecting one CNC Milling and Drilling Machine for small scale PCB making in house.I have collected some information. But I want to get some Practical suggestion from you as you are a user. Please suggest me regarding Company, Price, Quality and any other information you deem required for the CNC Milling and Drilling Machine you suggest - if possible on your part.  Your kind cooperation will be accepted with gratitude.

[DTiziano]

Weewee

Annex to the post there is my configuration and DXF sample generated by CircuitCAM.
In the .rar I put the different files between a fresh installation and my working one.
Some months ago I used this trick to move the configuration to another computer.
Make a backup and ADD/OR replace the files, preserving the proper directory destination.
My configuration work properly, tray it please.

tAhm1D

Very shortly
The sample you see is my sixth sample made. All was double sided PCB.
My CNC is an home made one. The mill is an “OPTIMUM BF20 L VARIO”, I updated it with ball screws axes (to keep backslash controlled) and stepper motors. The controller is a XP computer running Mach3. The machine is dedicated to generic mechanical jobs.
To do PCBs, I made a support to hold, on the Z axes, a small high speed Proxon drill (20K rpm) and a base plate to hold the PCB.
The standard motor, running at 3000 rpm is not enough for small drill/mill.
To hold the PCB during process I use a double-sided tape (really works, cheap , strong and good planarity).
The engraving job are made by carbide cylindrical end mills. This configuration is less critical (for me) versus the V shape one regarding the PCB planarity.
I found this tools from “http://www.ham-tools.com/” mill at 4.2 €, drills at 1,5 €  each.
If you need to make only PCBs the CNC price maybe too high, but for sure I can make it now in a very short time (not counting the master design).
For some information check here: http://www.damencnc.com/

Ask if need other information.

[weewee]

Hi DTiziano,

last night, I uninstalled the CircuitCam5 already, this morning I've come back to see the reply.

I reinstall the software back again and simply put your configuration into c:\LPKF50 by keeping all directory structure.

Bingo!

I can export DXF file easily. I don't how hard for you to figure out the configuration. But you've got me a big THANK

weewee

[DTiziano]

Updated plus a megaupload link

 

[mcr]

http://rapidshare.com/files/228043958/CAM5.rar     CircuitCam V5

or

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4QAS4S2C           CircuitCam V5

Password: www.sonsivri.com

I installed Circuitcam5 but the crack is not working when the software open it say that is a Demo.
When i run the crack show that it is patch

Maybe i am doing samething wrong.

[mcr]

PCB drilling and milling with a CNC.

After long search and experiments, function of programs available (to me at least),
I come to a solution that use some different program to generate the Gcode, plus a self written  function to generate the drilling data.
Programs involved:
Camware CAM 350              gerber conversion and drill generation
Circuit CAM 5.0 from LPKF    isolation path (DXF)
Visual Mill 5                       isolation DXF to gcode
Cimco Edit                        gcode prevue

My starting point are 274D gerber files.
On the PCB CAD I generate the Top, Bottom and Border layout, with drill data embedded on the pad stack.
With CAM350 version 9.5, I convert it to 274X format.
The drill data is extracted, sorted by distance and exported in Excellon2 format.
Additional function performed by CAM350 is to change the coordinates origin suitable for my CNC configuration.
The Excellon2 data is converted to gcode by my application.
The 274X file are imported (on the relative layer) in CircuitCam.
CircuitCam calculate the isolation path, and export it to DXF (no gcode support).
My configuration use two different tools: standard 0,6 mm , small 0,25 and isolation set at 0,6 mm. Typically Circuitcam use the 0,6 mm tools to route 95% of the PCB and the 0.25 mm to complete it. This configuration let me get a good isolation in very short time. Different configuration is also possible (till 4 different tools), and also select areas to mill completely (pouring).
Circuircam is really a powerfull application, the only drawback is that It do not generate the Gcode.
From the three base layer: top, buttom and Board I generate till 5 files:
-   Top standard, path for 0,6 mm
-   Top small, path for 0,25 mm
-   Bottom standard, path for 0,6 mm
-   Bottom small, path for 0,25 mm
-   Border

Once configured, CircuitCam perform all these operation by just few mouse clicks. The isolation calculation is very fast and accurate (much faster and better than Coppercam). The results can also be edited.

Visual Mill 5 take care to convert the DXF file to Gcode.
The five layer must be configured as long as the tools to be used.
I use a tricks to speed up the procedure. Once made the first project, a make a copy and then I replace all the layers data with the new one, all other assignment are kept and the generation are greatly speed up.

Cimco edit let you check the gcode generated and simulate the final result. At the beginning it is a must, it let discover errors or mistakes in the Gcode or procedure used to do it.

My CNC mill is driven by MACH3, and once configured for automatic Z axis presetting  after tool change the PCB milling and drilling is now quite simple and easy to do.

The attached picture is a sample double side PCB.

Additional notes
CopperCAM basically perform all these operation, is small and quite easy to operate and cheap.
Unfortunately, some drawback are very annoying and serious if you want to make good PCBs.
The isolation path is not accurate and even worst non optimized, do not support different size tool, editing is poor, drilling depending the way is generated is not sorted or not referenced to the coordinate.

http://rapidshare.com/files/228043958/CAM5.rar     CircuitCam V5

or

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4QAS4S2C           CircuitCam V5

Password: www.sonsivri.com

For the other software search them in the forum.

 

Do you have a procedure to export from Visualcam to gcode (mach3)?

[DTiziano]

I made the installation some months ago, and I do not remember exactly the procedure, but looking to the instruction seems that only the serial number is required.
The patch is for the stencil version.

For VisualMill I do not made any procedures, but I annex to this post a project sample with the mach3 post processor configuration.
Copy the  “Mach3.spm” file to  “..\VisualMill 5.0\Posts”  directory .

Tray to load the sample play with it, see the configuration, the tools library ect...
To see the different layer select the “Mops” tab in the browser area.
Then select one of the machine operation like “Border” to see the path, double click to open the configuration, or right click to start simulation or file generation.
You can use it as a base.
"I use a tricks to speed up the procedure. Once made the first project, I make a copy and then  replace all the layers data with the new one, all other assignment are kept and the generation are greatly speed up."

 

P.S.
A sample tools file is also included.

[eSilviu]

PCB drilling and milling with a CNC.

After long search and experiments, function of programs available (to me at least),
I come to a solution that use some different program to generate the Gcode, plus a self written  function to generate the drilling data.
Programs involved:
Camware CAM 350              gerber conversion and drill generation
Circuit CAM 5.0 from LPKF    isolation path (DXF)
Visual Mill 5                       isolation DXF to gcode
Cimco Edit                        gcode prevue

well, I use :
1. Eagle to design board
2. An ulp (writed by me - gcode1.zip on cadsoft eagle download page) for eagle
3. CNCDUDEZ usb controller

All of them are free, and I can use my notebook to control the CNC.

My ulp generate mill, drill or cut information from board (or all operations at once). Then I load .gc file in CNCdudez app, and run.
Simple as that. CNC will start and end operation at (0,0) coordinates. So I can easy change tool by hand.
Results... attached (0805 resistors in fist image)

[DTiziano]

Nice job eSilviu, very nice.
I do not use Eagle, but PCAD as CAD and my target was to use any cad that produce a gerber output.
Even if the sample I post is a single pass isolation, double side PCB, with CircuitCAM is possible to produce a multi tools (different size) pass, so there is a good control of isolation and if necessary, partial or complete remove of copper. Different tool size let produce complex sample in less time.

[Naste]

Hi eSilviu..

I am research in CNC too, but I'm just posted about motor stepper driver in my blog at nastelroy.wordpress.com
I will post about my CNC as soon as possible.
What CNC machine did you use?

_naste_

[Jum]

You may make a Videotutorial the entire process by the various programs?

I know a lot of work but it would help us a lot. I was using the coppercam I can not do anything and coppercam not work well plates with two sides.

Sorry  my bad English.

[cwm9]

Wow, that's nice!  I've bought all the tools to do mine on a Minimill, but I have yet to actually mill anything.  Personally, I think all the software available for isolation routing sucks pretty badly.

[Jum]

There is very little software and very expensive. It's hard to find versions that work.

[Naste]

try for EMC2 (Enhanced Machine Controller). I use it at Ubuntu RTAI. its look good for mill or drill with g-code

[mcr]

Cimco edit let you check the gcode generated and simulate the final result. At the beginning it is a must, it let discover errors or mistakes in the Gcode or procedure used to do it.

How do you check and simulate the g-code generated whit this program?

Best regards
 

[DTiziano]

Hi

Cimco edit is a complex application, that perform multiple operations.
I use it also to check mechanical jobs. Fortunately the basic operations are quite simple to set.

For PCB the basic operation are:
- load the Gcode to analyse
- select show simulation windows (where model will be created)
- set the tools used
- set the solid parameter (for PCB I use max Z=0 min Z = -1.6 mm)
- show model

Zoom in, rotate or hide tool path to analyse the job.
Useful for mechanical application is also the setting that stop the simulation when the tool make wrong operation like go through the model at transfer speed.

The annex picture show a simulation sample.

[mcr]

WHICH ONE PROGRAM DO YOU USE TO MAKE DRILLS.
REGARDS.

[DTiziano]

The same mill do it, really I first dill the PCB and then I make the isolation.

The drill data is extracted, sorted by distance and exported in Excellon2 format by CAM350.
Since I did not found any (working) program to convert Excellon2 to Gcode, I did one for my use.

The tools change is manual (of course), but to reduce errors and speed up the operations, I made some VB script for MACH3 to recalibrate the mill at tool chage.
The trick is quite simple, the tools is at ground, while the copper top side (isolated) is connected to the MACH3 probe input. The VB script move the tool since there is an electrical contact (PCB copper gronded), then reset the Z axes and resume operation.

Regards

P.S.
I am leaving for vacation, I will be back beginning of september.

[Jum]

 I liked the CIMCO, very interesting. The problem I have is that I can not find a program better than coppercam at an acceptable price.
 The pcb I like the hobby and I can not pay the 1400 euros worth isocam 3.

[andrea11]

hi DTiziano
how can I build the file export dxf in circuitcam 5?
thanks!

[DTiziano]

hi andrea11

Circuitcam is a beautiful program, but unfortunately you have to configure it before use.
Any way I made it while ago, so look at previous post (09 January 2009) were "weewee" ask for the same thing.
Download my configuration and follow the instructions.

Regards

[Jum]

One question, could send the file in visual basic to calibrate the Z axis with mach3?

Thanks.

[DTiziano]

Hi Jum

Here the script for Mach3.
The script is a collection of function, the one you need is the "Drill_Z (0)".
All my VB script once started test if the probe is OK (not grounded).
Once the selected function is started, it wait for a probe touch (by ground it).
In this way I am sure that the probe is working, otherwise the mill can make a mistake.

In PCB milling the drill is at ground, while the copper clad is the probe.

Regards
 

[Jum]

I am currently doing a project to use a nunchuck for the wii to emulate a jog dial for Mach 3 and wanted to add the option of seeking zero. So now I will not. Thank you.

Sorry my bad English.

[tienngoc]

Here is a little help.

http://www.vrg.utoronto.ca/~trescas/PCB/pcb_tutorial_rev1.pdf

[andrea11]

hi DTiziano,
here version 5.2.713 of circuitcam that seems to work well win your serials, I added some cat files

http://rapidshare.com/files/290145222/cam52.zipx

greetings to all
andrea11

[Jum]

Hi Dtiziano:
I'm trying to make a 2 sided board and I have a problem with circuitcam. The configuration files are you sent here. The botton face no problem, but I did not face top isolated tracks. No reason. If the top face of change and I put my botton isolated tracks without problems, but when I isolate the botton and the top, the top not isolated. If you post a project with a single-sided top, not isolated to me. You know that can happen?

Sorry for my inglish.

[DTiziano]

Hi

Here a sample project.
Did you put the various gerber files to the right layers place, right ?
Maybe this is the problem.
At import level you have to choose the destination layer.
Tray to play with the layers visible properties to check if it is OK.

Regards

[Jum]

My modus operandi is as follows:

1 - Gender 4 layers in Altium: Bottom, top, drill, boardoutline.
2 .- In circuitcam: New, default.
3 .- I import the 4 layers.
4 .- Insulate all layers.

In circuitcam if I choose new / 4layers, I can insulate the layers but I can not export to dfx (not shown the options).

My proyect.

Thanks.

[DTiziano]

Hi

You are right.
The configuration are stored under ..\LPKF50\New_Templates\<file.cat>
My set up is in "default.cat", so you must select it before starting.

Regards

[Jum]

I copied and pasted your file default.cat. Know this well because I have option to export DXF files. But something goes wrong. In the example I put here in a file, not isolated tracks in the top layer. In the example you've listed, delete the layers and layers under my project and if isolates the top face. I do not understand where the problem lies.


Thanks for your patience.

[DTiziano]

Hi

I am not sure to understand what you mean.
In your example the top trace insulation standard and small was not visible.
Goes to layer menu (type C from keyboard) and then enable them by checking the visible, selectable etc.  properties.

[Jum]

Yes,yes,yes.Do not know why but insulate the top layerstd was not visible.

[Jum]

Andrea11 :

 This file can only be downloaded by becoming a Premium member.

  Reload, please.

[DTiziano]

Hi

Here a megaupload link:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YEZO9MWT

[andrea11]

Jum:
here new link

http://rapidshare.com/files/297869921/cam52.zipx

[abcsantosh]

Hi DTiziano, your work is excellent. I am also trying to make pcb's with my home made milling machine.
I used your configuration and I can able to generate dxf files with it. But how do you drill your boards with excellon files. I want to generate drill gcode for mach3. Which apps you used for it ?

Have a nice day

[DTiziano]

Hi

"The Excellon2 data is converted to gcode by my application"

Since I did not found a working converter I write one basically for my use.
It is written in Labview, if you want to to try it here are the links.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LBQXII8F
or
http://rapidshare.com/files/303383407/Excellon2_install.rar

P.S.
This is my first application I built with the 8,6 version and I did not test yet the installations.

[mayli]

Do "DTiziano" try to upload rapidshare or other site?

Because our country do not support megaupload.

[DTiziano]

Ok

Updated with Rapidshare link.

[kalpakchiev]

I use ORCAD -> CooperCam -> Autograv. CooperCam supports a lot of different CADs and there is no need of conversion. Output files can be separated to DRILL ONLY and MILL ONLY and can be saved as *.NC or *.PLT which are widely accepted by most of CNC maschines.

[bbarney]

I use ORCAD -> CooperCam -> Autograv. CooperCam supports a lot of different CADs and there is no need of conversion. Output files can be separated to DRILL ONLY and MILL ONLY and can be saved as *.NC or *.PLT which are widely accepted by most of CNC maschines.

hey what the hell kalpakchiev I don't see any 16f84 in that picture

[kalpakchiev]

hey what the hell kalpakchiev I don't see any 16f84 in that picture

What picture, Sorry I can not understand

[Parmin]

kalpakchiev,  bbarney is pulling your leg! 
You have been posting a lot of 16F84 schema and designs lately 
Cmon barney, give the guy a break.
If he start posting in some other language you would be confused too   

[kalpakchiev]

Yeees, now I see the joke;D .
It is a thousand pities but my English is a little bit rusty .

Projects are with 16F84 because I have a lot of them. It is easy having the code to translate them for use with F628, F648, F88 .....

About the picture bbarney is right - there is no PIC at all. The missing chip is 74LS165. A few PCBs like this are chain connected and form a cluster with 256 inputs which are read by a 16F877 using SHIFTIN and SHIFTOUT commands in PBP

Next time I'll be more tuned for jokes

Best regards