Which one is best ?

[MAXPAYNE]

In case of Autorouting, which one is best u think for single sided board ?

Diptrace

Proteus

Eagle

Orcad Layout

Ultiboard & Ultiroute

[knave]

I tried Eagle but the Eagle's autorouter not to good...  Orcad too complex...
Try Altium Designer, PADS or PCAD for "manual" routing plus SPECCTRA for autorouting.

[MAXPAYNE]

Does SPECCTRA is most efficient autorouter ?

[user112]

I use proteus for smoll schematics but the most eficient is manual routing or you can choose 2 sides board and manual reruoting one side just for jumpers

[MAXPAYNE]

But if the autorouter is efficient then the rest of unrouted trace is reduced....

Also if I route with jumper on in a layer in diptrace it will make lots of jumper. So idon't usually chose the jumper on and manually put the jumper.....

[Trishool]

Its very hard to say . everyone is very religious about their tools , I can reccomend you to try ALTIUM DESIGNER and see its efficacy yourself.

Regards
Ts

[MAXPAYNE]

Hi Trishtool,
Are the Altium and PADS2006 same or different..?

[Trishool]

Hi Trishtool,
Are the Altium and PADS2006 same or different..?

Not at all Altium is more close to P-CAD .  Try Altium its just wonder full, if you need search the forum or I can give you exact links right away..

TS

[Trishool]

I wanted to add one thing that is I have also use Eagle , but its autorouter doesnt seems to stand anywhere beside Altium designer.

Ts

[zokij]

I try lot of different program, last one was Altium, but at the end I return to old-one Protel99SE .... if you want to have easy to use Cad with good autorouter use this ... you will have all what you have with Altium.
With any program (autorouter) you can`t finish your board. With best autorouter you still must finish about 10% of routing... or spend much more time to define autorouter rules... If you need CAD for schematics and PCB (with autorouter) and you dont need some simulation use Protel99SE.... I know this program is old (so am I) but ... I like them ... I work with PCB design long time and I start with Smart, Tango, Orcad..... and I try lot of new programs ....

 

[jezo]

I agree with Zokij. Protel99 it's best choice for home. Altium Designer is unnecessarily big. And autorouter? For single sided board no one...

p.s. Protel99 needs service pack 6. It's important.

[MAXPAYNE]

I am using diptrace and still not satisfied with it's autorouting......

[robertino]

In case of Autorouting, which one is best u think for single sided board ?

as other users say Eagle is not the best tool, i have used it for some schematics and for manual circuit design, the autorouter is not efficient at all..

i like and find very usefull (and now i use this) Multisim 10 for schematics and simulation, and Ultiboard/route for autoroute...

Ciao
Roberto

[Xwing]

Eagle + Electra for autorouting

[FriskyFerret]

In case of Autorouting, which one is best u think for single sided board ?

Diptrace

Proteus

Eagle

Orcad Layout

Ultiboard & Ultiroute

Some boards ban "which is best" posts because all it does is create useless traffic. I can see their point but until it becomes a problem here I will add my opinion.

For autorouting of single-sided boards the "best" package, in my interpretation of the word, is OrCAD Layout Plus. It will autoroute and auto-insert variable length jumpers as needed. The down side is that its a complicated package to learn for those accustomed to simple software like Proteus,  Diptrace, or Eagle. I once used OrCAD Layout but now use PADS.

Who wants to autoroute a single-sided board?

There are two classes of users:

• Hobbyists who want to fabricate their own board.
  
• Professional layout designers in the consumer electronics industry (read China) who are driven to layout on a single-sided board to reduce costs. Take a typical computer monitor apart. The main PCB will often be of significant size and complexity but be single-sided. A lot of effort and skill went in to designing that board so the manufacturer could save $2.43 each on 300,000 boards.

Basic Notes on the Autorouters

Diptrace
The built-in autorouter is pure rubbish. It can do a simple board but then anyone could do a simple board by hand, too. Diptrace is a respectable package but it must be used with Electra.

Proteus
The autorouter isn't terrible but it should be used with Electra, too. The built-in router has problems with fan-outs and proper handling of surface mount components. It does a "good enough" job with thru-hole, especially with Electra. Using the built-in autorouter with surface mount, high density devices can get really  strange.

Eagle
The autorouter is fairly primitive. Again, Electra should be used.

Orcad Layout
The built-in shape-based autorouter is quite respectable. It has SPECCTRA as a add-in, the mother of all autorouters, though most hobbyists haven't a clue how to use it.

Ultiboard & Ultiroute
The autorouter in this package mostly stinks. I can't remember if it does auto-insertion of jumpers or not.


For beginners, as someone suggested, Protel 99 SE with SP6, or Pulsonix v4.6 makes an excellent general purpose capture and layout package. The autorouter in Protel 99SE is just barely acceptable (way better than Diptrace, Eagle or Proteus) but will do a reasonable job. The one in Pulsonix is very good, competing with SPECCTRA and a lot easier to set up and run.

Don't be put off that Protel 99 SE is 8 years old. It is still a very good, complete package with almost no bugs. Protel 99 SE also has a good manual to teach you how to use it, as does Pulsonix.

[MAXPAYNE]

Hi FriskyFerret,
      How can I use Electra with Diptrace ?

[avralam]

Hi Maxpayne!
Do not waste time for singlesided autorouter! You cannot see normal PCB! Good visible result can you see only with manual routing. I making PCB with Sprint Layout5. All dimensions and commands are on the screen.

[Trishool]

I try lot of different program, last one was Altium, but at the end I return to old-one Protel99SE .... if you want to have easy to use Cad with good autorouter use this ... you will have all what you have with Altium.
With any program (autorouter) you can`t finish your board. With best autorouter you still must finish about 10% of routing... or spend much more time to define autorouter rules... If you need CAD for schematics and PCB (with autorouter) and you dont need some simulation use Protel99SE.... I know this program is old (so am I) but ... I like them ... I work with PCB design long time and I start with Smart, Tango, Orcad..... and I try lot of new programs ....

 

Well when I was using Protel99SE with all service packs applied I use to get hell lot errors on Windows98SE , The program used to crash many times , but with DXP or altium upgrade no such crashes are there. One thing more auto router also depends on the track widths you choose , I feel Altium has made a lot of changes in the routing topology then that was in earlier versons , Traxmaker , protel 3.xx, protel99Se, DXp and now Altium. evolution is on . I suggested because its free to dowload here , downloaded latest Altium from sonsivri only 1.4Gb full.

Regards
Ts   

[MAXPAYNE]

But i don't have much speed here to download such a biggy..!!!  1.4Gb

I am gonna such the torrent...

[Trishool]

MAXPAYNE ,  Actually you have to do compromises , If you have limited speed you can try Eagle , I feel its good for hobby type projects but certainly not for professional design , I ts only 11MB ,in size .Worth the size .  I am a little confused what for do you need the PCB design software I mean what is your application?

Ts

[Trishool]

MAXPAYNE , Try this PCB design software TRAXMAKER and I am sure youll get in love with it , the simplicity and ease of youse will take you away , I have just uploaded this and it has its pass onside the ZIP .

http://rapidshare.com/files/66907893/circuit-maker.zip.html

TrIsHooL

[MAXPAYNE]

Trishool, I usually do my pcb work with traxmaker and diptrace....

traxmaker and sprint laout is really simple for starting with pcb design....

[FriskyFerret]

Well when I was using Protel99SE with all service packs applied I use to get hell lot errors on Windows98SE , The program used to crash many times.

I've used it off and on for years on Win9X machines, WinNT, Win2K and never had a problem. I've known many others that have never had a problem, either.

People always blame some specific application for crashing a Win9X system, or more often, the OS itself. The problem usually is that the system was already unstable due to some poorly written driver or a corrupt file system.

As far as Altium Designer, it's a 2.2 Gig install and requires the newest and fastest hardware just to run it. It doesn't come with a manual, only small fragmented learning guides and has more bugs than you can shake a stick at.

Protel 99 SE SP6 is less than 100 Meg, has a very complete manual, very few bugs and will do anything a student or hobbyist would want.

You decide.

[Trishool]

I've used it off and on for years on Win9X machines, WinNT, Win2K and never had a problem. I've known many others that have never had a problem, either.

People always blame some specific application for crashing a Win9X system, or more often, the OS itself. The problem usually is that the system was already unstable due to some poorly written driver or a corrupt file system.

As far as Altium Designer, it's a 2.2 Gig install and requires the newest and fastest hardware just to run it. It doesn't come with a manual, only small fragmented learning guides and has more bugs than you can shake a stick at.

Protel 99 SE SP6 is less than 100 Meg, has a very complete manual, very few bugs and will do anything a student or hobbyist would want.

You decide.

I am not denying that Protel 99SE isnt worth using . I have done a lot of design with Protel 99SE ,But with windowsXP you require protel DXP 99SE I couldnt make to run , if I remember correctly , The errors that I used to get were when I use to export sch to PCB , no such as related to RAM or CPU .Maybe I used some different crack on it and you used a different one.

Ts   

[zokij]

I still use PROTEL99SE with all service pack on windows XP when I need good help of autorouter with PCB... without problem. If you need help , assistance , probably I can help you to use right way witth step by step procedure of installing and cracking ...
And about Altium Designer I try on few project but I cant see nothing more (only if you have companion and make corporate work) but for use simplicity and quickly for me is still Protel99se....

[ppa88]

I have used Protel99SE under Win98 and XP and I must say it had problems with 98. But with XP Pro SP 2 , it is quite stable. The only care you have to take is make regular backps of your work as you proceed. A brilliant package for a beginner, it has got a nice database approach for storing your project. Its autorouter is more than average and will require good tuning as any other. (Remember there is no better router than a sound human brain!). But then Protel were good enough to provide the Specctra interface , so if you have that, then you are in driver's seat, (Specctra is the best autorouter I have seen). The greatest feature of this software is what is called "GLOBAL EDITING" which I have not seen anywhere. What a brilliant concept !

The downside of Protel99 is absence of PIN and GATE swap and the non integration of the device symbol and package into a single entity (as has been done in Eagle for eg.). This inconvinience was taken care of in DXP and Altium Designer. AD is a professional level package with a great FPGA design integration, but it may put off a newbie because of its being a huge huge package with too many features. And some of the features which were easy to do in Protel99 are difficult to do in AD (eg., global editing is a bit of a pain in AD).The situs autorouter is criticised for being unstable for complicated designs but again the specctra interface is there.

Eagle - Good package for small PCBs , a huge library available and it is easy to add your components

PCAD - Similar to Protel in features but more difficult to use

Traxmaker - Good for amateur work

Most people in industry say that Pads PowerPCB, Zuken Cadstar and Cadene Allegro are the preferred ones but I think they are too costly and I really don't know if third party libraries are available easily. (Protel 99SE  and Eagle are winners in this)

These are my views in brief, of course people may differ.

[Trishool]

And some of the features which were easy to do in Protel99 are difficult to do in AD (eg., global editing is a bit of a pain in AD).The situs autorouter is criticised for being unstable for complicated designs but again the specctra interface is there.

PPa88 ,
 I am not able to comprehend,  global editing you are talking about . Please elobrate , do you mean multi documents (schematics) interconnect, I have been using Altium DXP with SP4 , situs autorouter  is just fine . Are you talking about the latest software of Altium Designer V6.6  , what problems are there in the Auto router, that you have encountered .

Ts 

[ppa88]

By global editing I mean the facility to do multiple changes with a single operation. This feature is activated by double clicking on a component on a PCB or Schematic and then clicking on the Global button.  The "Attributes to Match by"  and "Copy Attributes" choices which open then give you amazing control on the multiple changes that can be done in a single operation.This is a truly great feature in my opinion. The same operation in AD is not as simple to do as in 99SE for a newbie.

As far as the situs autorouter is concerned, I have not used it personally as I always use Specctra. However I have seen criticism for the same (in situations where it has to follow many rules) on other forums. They might have improved it in 6.6.

[SONSiVRi]

Some boards ban "which is best" posts because all it does is create useless traffic. I can see their point but until it becomes a problem here I will add my opinion.

go for it, its knowledge.

[Ahmad_k]

I think each software have a bug, but for me i use OrCad Capture to draw the schematic because it is the best one, it is very easy in editing components in place. and then i use the Protel Dxp to place the components and manual route, i dont use autorouter. After that i use eagle to generate a 3D Pcb by redrawing the components only in Eagle layout.    . I have a laboratory, me and my team create a professional PCB using these steps.

But the good news exists in OrCad 16. Cadence had removed LAYOUT and integrates the Allegro layout which is the best of the best, and integrate a powerfull components autoplacer, you can see a demo on the www.cadence.com

So i will wait until the Orcad 16 becomes cracked

[Trishool]

By global editing I mean the facility to do multiple changes with a single operation. This feature is activated by double clicking on a component on a PCB or Schematic and then clicking on the Global button.  The "Attributes to Match by"  and "Copy Attributes" choices which open then give you amazing control on the multiple changes that can be done in a single operation.This is a truly great feature in my opinion. The same operation in AD is not as simple to do as in 99SE for a newbie.

As far as the situs autorouter is concerned, I have not used it personally as I always use Specctra. However I have seen criticism for the same (in situations where it has to follow many rules) on other forums. They might have improved it in 6.6.

I will use thie feature , I want to add one thing to the Situs auto router AD DXP and that is , even though you set design rules , and it shows 100% connection complete , the DRC reports short circuit voilations that the situs makes delibrately and the width constraints arnt followed strictly , \otherwise the auto router is the best one I could see . 

[ppa88]

even though you set design rules , and it shows 100% connection complete , the DRC reports short circuit voilations that the situs makes delibrately and the width constraints arnt followed strictly ,

This can be a potentially serious problem especially for a complex pcb design, I hope Altium takes care of this in their next release.

[Prommer]

Eagle is world wide in use and there are a lot of library avaiable via www.cadsoft.de (Libs are free).

The better performance for professional user is Altium Designer. You can made the complete devolopent with it. Schematic, Simulation, Layout, FPGA ......

I'm using Eagle, P-CAD and Altium Designer and the best is Altium Desinger, but last two are very expensive
(for Professional use).

[eibol]

Eagle is very easy to use ! and work under linux

[mviboolr]

Hi friends
     I prefer Eagle. It's easy to used and small.
mviboolr

[id2]

For single-side pcb I use protel99se but manual routing

[ugur]

I use proteus. I think is so good.
I write a robbot code with jal. Pic 16f877 controls 32 servo motor with brain. Proteus simulates robbot so really.

[memed500]

Orcad Layout is best.

[sammm]

I use pulsonix autorouter and I think that  it doesn't work very well. I think that if you want a good routing you have to do a manual routing! Anycase also if u want only to link pads, pulsonix autorouter is not a dragon!

Posted on: January 11, 2008, 06:23:45 18:23 - Automerged
Which are feature that make an autorouter a good autorouter?

[shibuv]

proteus is best for micro controller

[nine9]

i prefer eagle for small projects but didn't like the new beta version

[munaf]

protel 99SE is the best one from others.  you can get help via email  from protel company for any problem.  they repply very soon.

[sheriefaly]

orcad is the best

[eLAB]

And what if we want to use legal version?

What is a price of Proteus, Protel, Orcad etc?

Eagle is affordable and Diptrace also... Diptrace is now released in version 1.50 beta. Surely progressing...
Yes, autorouter is not the best side of this sw but in newer versions it will be corrected (I hope!)....
Eagle is very good but when editing finished boards, it`s weaker then diptrace...

Vote for diptrace

[irvinos]

Try Electra. It comes with PROTEUS. electra is more smart than ARES autorouter.

[yangzy]

Protel 99se is easy to start,you can try it.

[ashu.spect]

Eagle is best in free softwares but professionally Altium designer(previously Protel) is the best

Ashu

[MAXPAYNE]

topic locked